Why is F360 so difficult?

[MadManScott]

I've taught myself Photoshop, Gimp, 3d studio max, maya, blender... I've made my own 3d videogames in Unity and Unreal... modeled my own objects for it, textured them, compiled them for android and ios...

but for some reason i cant do anything in fusion 360 but draw boxes and import svg... Is there technical reasons why this software is so impossible?

For example, in any other software if i want to move something, i select the thing i want to move, click the move button/tool/whatever, and i move it.

Not in fusion360.

The move tool doesnt move anything. I've spent hours trying to figure out simply how to move a rectangle and its just not possible. 

I have managed to "twist" things with the move tool. i dont remotely understand how the software thinks i want to do this. Im not using a "twist" tool...

Not to mention this box isnt even centered. I cant figure out how to center it. It would be helpful if i could specify the center in x/y coordinates but i cant find that option.

I have been able to import SVG files, which is the only time i can really move/resize anything. But once i click Okay on that import window, its permanently fixed in that location for all time. I've begun designing my things in inkscape and just importing it to fusion360 so that i can generate basic toolpaths for simple text lettering and things. The CAM side of it is fairly easy... but that doesnt matter much if i cant make anything other than basic lines.

Why are things so difficult in f360? is it some kind of upsell to training classes? I honestly dont understand why i cant just click the move tool, and move something. And its not just moving things. There are a million seemingly simple tasks that i just cant do. No matter how many youtube videos i watch none of it ever works.

Tried the "support and learning" section but i cant access any of that. It tells me to click next. i click next. and its just right back at the main "what would you like to do?" page... I click Start Learning again.... It tells me to  click next... i click next.... back to "what would you like to do?"  hmkay. 

Hell, even trying to manage the saved files is a nightmare. Its impossible to delete anything. What are all these subfolders "master" etc etc for? i dont know.  I have a ****ton of things saved that i would loooove to delete.

Oh, and "G28 Safe Retracts" is a hilarious troll. I zero out x/y/z, retract z a little... hit go.... and ZOOM it rapids the spindle straight down into the piece and tries to rapid the spindle through the work to the beginning point, before retracting and then beginning the proper plunge. WOW!

And im not even talking about rapid'ing the endmill through the material. no, it tries to plunge so deep that my actual spindle would have to penetrate the work. LOL!

The best part of this is its completely hidden toolpath in the previews. It does NOT display this path at all in simulation. Even when i import the resulting gcode into whatever sender software im using, it does NOT show this disaster until im witnessing my machine do it. Thankfully no damage to my spindle or machine, just a broken bit and a destroyed workpiece. But holy! Thats some serious next-level trolling.

Disabled "safe retracts" and now it safely retracts and functions properly. lol. I think whats happening here is when i zero out my Z coordinate, the G28 command is trying to move it to "machine" z0. But, since i just reset my zero axis, this "machine z0" could be DEEEEP into the work piece, further than my machine is even capable of moving.

Avoid G28 retracts at all cost.

WHY?!!??! Has nobody else had this problem? am i missing something wildly obvious for the past 2 months? I dont get it. This software has done nothing but cause waves and waves of frustration and anxiety. I dont think i can deal with this anymore.

[TrippyLighting]

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@Anonymous wrote:

So anyway, how do you change the diameter of a cylinder...

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There are a good number of tutorials in the Learn and Support section that will help you though the essentials.

[dieselguy65]

There's many easy ways.
Use push\pull on the outer surface is quick

Edit the sketch the cylinder was extruded from.

Change the diameter by clicking one of the end faces and editing the
dimensions of that circle.


I'm sure there's other ways. But these are all very simple

[Anonymous]

There's an excellent feature called 'scale'. You click on the item you want to enlarge then click 'scale' and it will increase the size of the object times what ever figure you put in, and it just does it! Someone should let them know about this bug.

Now when I put a thread on the cylinder and click ok and the cylinder simply disappears and there's just a bit of thread.

[TrippyLighting]

You'll learn better if you listen to the advise of people that have vastly more experience than you.

Do not use scale for mechanical designs!

[TheCADWhisperer]

File >Export and then Attach your *.f3d file here.

[ssawyerLVXNY]

Since this seems to be the on-going b**ch thread, I thought I'd chime in!! 😊

I've been hammering on the tutorial videos for about a week now, at least 8-10 hours by this point, and I'm making progress. The most frustrating thing right now is that the tutorials are so badly out of date with the product. I noticed that many of the dialogs in the tutorials are completely different from what I'm seeing on-screen. Then the UI update got pushed out! 🙄

So, what I've been doing, is I have my default set to use the old UI. I work through a tutorial, then I go and start a new drawing and attempt to use the technique explained in the tutorial starting "from scratch". Once I'm comfortable with the technique, I then switch to the new UI, and attempt to repeat the process. That can lead to some interesting surprises!

I didn't realize from the tutorials I've completed so far, that there are two different types of "Extrude" - one for Surfaces and one for Solids! Of course, at first I thought I'd screwed something up when trying to do an extrusion as I was just getting the surfaces containing the sketch, and not the enclosed faces! I wasn't sure if this was a new feature, or if it was someplace else on the old UI. Sure enough, I found it (and the same behavior) in the Old UI in the Patch workspace!! The new workspaces do seem to make more sense (I couldn't figure out for the life of me what "Patch" meant! )

Anyway, I can see that less committed new users could end up throwing a laptop across the room given the divergence between the video tutorials and the product! I do hope that this is corrected sometime soon.

[dieselguy65]

Yes, from what I've read, scale is not for that.

Scale is if you have drawn a project, part. Etc and then realize you don't it in the wrong measurements. Mm, inches, feet, or whatever.

At least that's what I got from one of the videos. 

It's not too change the size of an object

[StephenCim-001]

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@Anonymous wrote:

So anyway, how do you change the diameter of a cylinder...

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I'll bite 🙂

If you create a Cylinder, using Model-> Cylinder , then you right click on the Cylinder Feature in the time line and select Edit Feature....   But I sure you have worked this out by now 😉

[ToddHarris7556]

Those are entirely legitimate gripes, and fair enough. It is, in fact, far easier to learn if you don't have to wonder whether or not the tutorial/instructions/advice actually applies to the product you're trying to learn. 

Without trying to speak for all 'veterans' (but I suspect many would agree) is that it is simple NOT REALISTIC for a beginner to pick up a program like Fusion 360, connect a cheap laser cutter or CNC, and instantly become a genius product designer/engineer. Too many people expect a silver bullet answer, and are unwilling to invest the YEARS that it takes to master fundamentals, and to begin to use the power of the tools. 

This isn't to say that the tools shouldn't be intuitive and accessible - but they're going to be MORE intuitive and accessible to a user who has a decade or two of experience. Does anyone seriously think that a user with a week's experience should be able to click an icon and get a meaningful stress analysis? I expect that could be catastrophic in certain situations.

My point is simply that there are many ways to use these tools. Fusion 360 doesn't dictate a particular workflow. It offers many options for users to approach design in different ways, and it does actually take time to accumulate the experience to use it well. There is no shortcut, and there never will be. 

[cekuhnen]

@ToddHarris7556 @ssawyerLVXNY 

Todd I fully agree - while I always promote fusion as a pretty easy platform to learn and in theory parametric modeling is pretty simple - logical. Experience however is what is needed to be good at it and that takes time to accumulate.

each project is different and requires different strategies.

new users need to realize that and not get frustrated so fast.

3d is 3D it takes time

[TrippyLighting]

@ssawyerLVXNY Let me say that I commend you for going through the tutorials!  While I understand that the new UI throws a wrench into many new user wheels, based on some feedback I received from the Fusion 360 team it was a necessary effort in order improve the underpinnings of the software.

While it does make the learning efforts a bit more difficult, in my experience once the basic concepts are understood the importance of a super intuitive UI fade into the background. The more experience you have with the tools the less important the UI becomes. I've tutored about 2 dozen people privately from 3D and CAD novice to seasoned professionals (with other CAD tools) and the UI has never come up as a problem.

[ssawyerLVXNY]

@TrippyLighting - don't mis-interpret my comments as complaint, they're more of an amused lament!! From what I've seen the UI changes are  very, very good - maybe more obviously so to a newbie.

And yes, I was just commenting in another online forum that this is not a tool that you can effectively learn just by sitting down and mucking about with it for a few hours; it takes serious study, then lots of practice. That's why I immediately try to apply each new technique in a new drawing, using the new UI, and take the time to look up in the documentation all the options for each feature or operation before progressing to the next lesson. Sure, it's slow, and some of it doesnt "take" right away but there is no reason not to begin to acquire that practical experience while working through the lessons. I would still be unaware of those two workspace-specific Extrude behaviors if I wasn't taking the time to step off the path and explore a bit on my own as I progress. It also helps me to gradually internalize the conceptual foundations of a Fusion 360 project.

I've taught classes in 3d modelling with Sketchup, and am already thinking about how I would approach teaching a class in Fusion 360 should I ever progress to a point where I could do that. You never really master a subject until you teach it!

[Anonymous]

Took 24 hours, now I'm moving cylinders about like no one's business! Also built complex parts to fix damaged electronics casings. Word (to your step mother's predecessor).

[chrisplyler]

I can't think of any complex software that is super easy to use for a newb. It takes exploring the UI, practicing, looking things up on youtube, trial-and-error, etc.

Do even the people who use it every day ever FULLY know how to do EVERYTHING in Photoshop? I doubt it.

[kb9ydn]

I suspect one of the reasons many newcomers find Fusion hard to learn is because they aren't just trying to learn Fusion, they're trying to learn the fundamentals of CAD at the same time. These are things like: What is a sketch?  What are the tools used to create a 3D form from a sketch (extrude, revolve, loft, etc.)?  Why would we use any one of them over another?  What are solid modelling and surface modeling?  Why would we use one over the other?  What is parametric modeling vs. direct modeling?  Why would we use one over the other?

I haven't looked at a lot of the learning material for Fusion, but what I have seen approaches things mostly from a "howto" perspective, i.e. how to create a sketch, how to create a loft, etc..  There is little explanation of what they actually are and why you would use them.  These are concepts that are not Fusion specific, but still must be understood (to some extent anyway) before being able to use any CAD software.  You can of course learn these things as you go but the learning curve will vary a lot depending on where you're starting from.

I really think the Fusion learning material would benefit from having some "intro to CAD" type content before even getting into Fusion specifics.

C|

[lichtzeichenanlage]

Best practice: Don't use primitives. Create a Sketch -> Create Sketch, sketch a Create -> Circle -> Center Diameter Circle, dimension it and Solid -> Create -> Extrude it. If you want to change the diameter, change the sketch. If you want to change the height edit the feature. Alternatively you can change both in the Modify -> Change Parameter list. 

[ssawyerLVXNY]

>>I suspect one of the reasons many newcomers find Fusion hard to learn is because they aren't just trying to learn Fusion, they're trying to learn the fundamentals of CAD at the same time.<<

True, that - I would indeed be finding the tutorials much more difficult if I didn't have experience in another modeling tool. I'm still unclear re "parametric modeling" vs "direct modeling", because my current modeling tool is not parametric. I'm sure it will become clear in time...

[StephenCim-001]

For me "parametric modeling" means being able to change features of a design with out having to re-model it.

This image show how I  change change ring size, height , top diameter  and I can also adjust shank thickness and a few other parameters to change the look without having to remodel anything.

[ToddHarris7556]

Re: parametric vs direct modeling - at the highest level, it basically boils down to 'editing parameters' vs 'editing model features'.

Parametric modeling: Create some parameters.... say, LEN, WID and HT. Then create a sketch, with a rectangle which is LEN x WID, and extrude it up HT. If you want to edit the model, you just look at the parameter table and change the LEN to a new value. The feature updates accordingly. Say you want to pop a hole in the block. Dimension the hole to be LEN/2 from one edge, and WID/2 from the other. No matter how you change the parameters, the hole will stay centered in the face. There's a lot of power in parametric modeling - but as the saying goes 'with great power comes great responsibility'. Solid modeling practices will pay off down the line, and shortcuts will cause many, many headaches. 

Direct modeling: The features might still be created from a sketch, but once the feature is created, the sketch is consumed and there's no 'history' to go back and edit. If you want to edit the size of the block, you simply grab one side and push/pull or otherwise edit. I'd say in general, Direct modeling is a lot more forgiving, but also less powerful. At times, it can be very useful to have that flexibility. 

Most modern modeling tools have some combination of parametric and direct modeling functionality. There are times and places to use both.

[Anonymous]

Glad it's not just me😥.  It is certainly not intuitive. 

Just following the opening tutorial on saving and uploading files was enough to put me off trying to learn this.  I don't know how such a simple task can possibly be made to be so awkward and difficult to follow.  The video skips past the "save as " part without further ado, yet this is a crucial step before being able to complete the task.    A quick first time use confirms the lack of intuitive comtrols and if the rest of the tutorials are anything like the one alluded to, then this is probably going to take more time than I'm willing to invest in order to learn how to use it.