Three profile loft's default rail twists the feature, and I can't untwist it

Three profile loft's default rail twists the feature, and I can't untwist it

jordanJM463
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Message 1 of 20

Three profile loft's default rail twists the feature, and I can't untwist it

jordanJM463
Contributor
Contributor

See attached screencast. The same thing happens when I choose the straight line I made as a guide rail. Any way to keep this from reverting or even worsening when I try to fix it?

 

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Message 2 of 20

jeff_strater
Community Manager
Community Manager

@jordanJM463 - It looks like this is a bug in loft point mapping in Fusion.  Rail curves are the usual way to control this, I'm surprised it does not work.  Can you share the model here so we can investigate?

 


Jeff Strater
Engineering Director
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Message 3 of 20

jordanJM463
Contributor
Contributor

Sure. If you're investigating this design I'd also be curious why it won't thicken. I know it's likely a different issue, but potentially related.

 

https://a360.co/2NMr3kB

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Message 4 of 20

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

While Jeff might be surprised and unhappy that this does not work I am not 😉

It simply isn't a good idea to create a loft like this because it usually generates terrible geometry.

 

Below is an image of the curvature map (Inspect-.Curvature) map.

The patchy look is likely reason that this does not thicken. 

 

Screen Shot 2019-07-11 at 12.16.35 PM.png

 


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Message 5 of 20

jordanJM463
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Contributor

I guess, but the terrible geometry that results in those strange curves is a result of the bugged twisted rail. I can get a preview of the feature with a straightened rail and the curvature looks a lot less unsightly, although I'll admit there is a suboptimal transition from the filleted triangle profile and the chamfered triangle profile.  Beyond that, this method is taken straight from Fusion best practices for multi-profile volumes https://youtu.be/fXQ28AVaMh0?t=58

 

Do you know of a better way to create this shape? It's a very specific shape that needs to be made, the geometry is requirements based.

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Message 6 of 20

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

The video is ages old and shows a specific workflow, but I would not consider that a best practice.

I would not call the spline buggy before I had a full understanding of what that spline represents.

 

A Fusion 360 fit point spline is a multi span 5 degree spline, a very complex beast.

Interestingly enough the kernel can really only to 3 degree NURBS surfaces so an approximation is made somewhere.

there are several layers of math dnd algorithm at work here probably down into the geometric modeling kernel.

 

Can you be more specific on these requirement ?

 

In general it isn't a bad idea to break this into several individual lofts. 


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Message 7 of 20

jordanJM463
Contributor
Contributor

@TrippyLighting wrote:

I would not consider that a best practice.


I don't mean to be snarky, but the title of the video is "BEST PRACTICE: How to Loft". It's an old tutorial but maybe worth removing/replacing.

 

Agreed, I definitely don't have a good handle on what that spline is doing. I tried doing two different lofts but got stuck on the unsightly seam between the surface edges. Even then I couldn't thicken the shape after stitching it.

 

The requirements are for an inverted pyramid where the first loft (smaller loft) has specific geometry for the bottom and top profiles, and has three flat sides. The edge geometry is a bit flexible but not much, as the second loft (the larger loft) is meant to pull in the corners of the inverted pyramid inward so the base of the inverted pyramid has a smaller area. Again, the edge geometry is a little bit flexible but not much. I've made a version where I used a fillet instead of a chamfer on the top profile and everything works fine, but it doesn't fit the requirements as well.

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Message 8 of 20

jordanJM463
Contributor
Contributor

Also I see you don't work for Autodesk, so snark is definitely not pointed towards you!

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Message 9 of 20

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@jordanJM463 wrote:

Also I see you don't work for Autodesk, so snark is definitely not pointed towards you!


Well ... I hope you don't get snarky with Jeff either 😉

 

The tutorials is ok for what it demonstrates and it also does not create that twist.

If you turn the Inspect->Curvature map on on your straight lofted structure you'll see it looks quite OK.

However, as soo as you move the spine point I'll likely burst into rainbow colors and get all patchy.

 

Would you be able to post that filleted version so I can get a better understanding of what you're after ?


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Message 10 of 20

jordanJM463
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Contributor

https://a360.co/2LPEM7q

 

The chamfer is better as it further restricts the area of the base profile without having to reduce the length of the sides of the pyramid. So I'm kind of stuck without being able to loft between these profiles.

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Message 11 of 20

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

So if I understand this correctly, the twist is NOT desired ?


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Message 12 of 20

jordanJM463
Contributor
Contributor

That's correct, you can see in the screencast above my attempt at untwisting it and Fusion just reverts it back once the feature is finished.

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Message 13 of 20

jeff_strater
Community Manager
Community Manager

to answer the original loft question:  The behavior you show in your screencast is definitely a Fusion bug.  Editing the loft and adjusting the point mapping seems to be failing - the point mapping is not remembered.  That bug is FUS-49011.

 

Usually, the way to force point mapping is to use rail curves.  In the screencast below, I added rail curves.  Does this produce the geometry that you need?

 

Screencast will be displayed here after you click Post.

dca8db9a-5cbb-41b8-9c60-a10559acd3d1

 

Also, with this change, I was able to Thicken this to 1 mm (probably more) outward, and 0.4 mm inward:

Screen Shot 2019-07-11 at 10.25.52 AM.png

The curvature map for this still shows areas of high curvature, which will cause Thicken issues:

Screen Shot 2019-07-11 at 10.50.37 AM.png


Jeff Strater
Engineering Director
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Message 14 of 20

jordanJM463
Contributor
Contributor

 


Not sure if this is going to eventually show the screencast?

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Message 15 of 20

chrisplyler
Mentor
Mentor

 

Weird. I didn't use any rails at all, or adjust anything during the loft process. My pyramid comes out untwisted, the curvature is reasonable and uniform, and I've got no problem thickening it as long as I don't squeeze those small radii at the top too small.

 

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Message 16 of 20

chrisplyler
Mentor
Mentor

 

 

 

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Message 17 of 20

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

How did you manage to magically make that edge straight ?


Screen Shot 2019-07-11 at 4.03.37 PM.png


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Message 18 of 20

jordanJM463
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Contributor

Yeah, it looks like Chris's top profile is wider so the corner edges are straight.

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Message 19 of 20

chrisplyler
Mentor
Mentor

 

I used this line between the bottom and top triangles, project/intersected it into the middle sketch to size the middle triangle with.

how I did it.JPG

And then I adjusted the fillet radii of that middle profile by eye after the fact.

 

Now I've realized I could have made that line - not from the construction triangles - but instead from the profiles themselves, and used a tangent arc coincident to that intersect point to let those radii automatically be correct. That would be better than eyeballing it.

 

I'm also wondering now if the middle profile is even necessary. Is there a design constraint that requires conical corners down to a certain point before the transition can begin? If you just loft bottom-to-top only, it's even smoother.

 

 

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Message 20 of 20

jeff_strater
Community Manager
Community Manager

sigh, my screencast is not posting.  Try again.  Here is the direct link: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/dca8db9a-5cbb-41b8-9c60-a10559acd3d1

 

 

 


Jeff Strater
Engineering Director
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