Thin walls not displaying properly

[sambirchenough]

Is there a way to make these thin walls (.05mm) appear properly? The black body is between the two yellow bodies shouldn't show through. It shows through differntly at various zoom levels but does not appear correctly in Keyshot either (which a bigger problem). FWIW, they don't appear correctly with a .2mm thickness either but it is slightly better. Thanks!

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @sambirchenough,

Thank you for sharing your picture. I guess that the two faces are too close togther but there could be a hidden face as well

which creates these black shadows. Could you share a public link of your design with us?

Thanks,

[sambirchenough]

@Mike.Grau

Thank you, here you go: http://a360.co/25XR2rp

EDIT:

When I export the design as a .step and import it to keyshot, it displays correctly in keyshot at a high tessellation setting. When imported to keyshot directly from fusion using live linking, it doesn't display properly, even at .2mm walls. Seems like its a tessellation problem in fusion.

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @sambirchenough,

Thank you for sharing your file. I have modified a little and approached the thin wall design with the shell command.

I have applied a wall thickness of 0.1 mm but 0.05 mm works as well and doesn´t show black shades.

Here is the public link to the design I have created, have fun with it.

I hope you can use the file.

Thanks,

[sambirchenough]

@Mike.Grau Thanks for your time here Mike but I'm afraid you missed that the black showing through is another body (It's a drawstring for the trash bag). The problem persists using shell instead of thicken.

Here I took your file, assured the shell wall thickness was .1mm, sliced and offset a patch .05mm inward, and the patch still shows through even with no thickness applied to it:

Hoping you can help on this soon as I have a tight deadline for this project. Thank you so much!

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @sambirchenough,

I appreciate that you could use my modified design. Yes, I have missed the drawstring.

Could you share the modified design as well? I would like to work on your file again.

Do you need do to design the drawstring physically? Would you may be able just to visualize the drawstring?

Thanks,

[sambirchenough]

Here you go @Mike.Grau

http://a360.co/1UeUBEe

Keep in mind the first file I shared is accurate to the final design but this one has the same problem.

The drawstring does need to be modeled as this needs to be rendered realistically in keyshot for a client.

Thank you for your help!

[Mike.Grau]

Hi @sambirchenough,

Thank you for modeling the drawstring. I have modified the design in that way that I could not

see any large intersections anymore. The result with the Fusion Render environment looks pretty good.

Here is link to the design. 

I hope you can use the modified trash bag.

Thanks,

[mcramblet]

---

Seems like its a tessellation problem in fusion.

---

It's not a tessellation problem with Fusion, it's with the Keyshot plug-in. That's my gripe with the plug-in, the low level of tessellation and lack of control to adjust it. Keyshot use to say in the description, that you had control over the tessellation. When I contacted Keyshot and asked where this function was located in Fusion or the plug-in, I received no response and the plug-in description quietly changed, removing the tessellation feature. In my opinion, the Keyshot plug-in for Fusion 360 is pretty close to worthless. The Fusion 360 plug-in for Keyshot doesn't have anywhere near the functionality of the Rhino plug-in for Keyshot. It's certainly possible to have much more control in a Fusion 360 plug-in, the plug-in Thea Render developed for Fusion 360 has that level of control. It has options for tessellation, as well as, Y or Z orientation.

[sambirchenough]

@mcramblet

I completely agree. It'd be such a timesaver if it was more usable. Having to start from scratch on material linking in Keyshot is not fun and no auto updating costs so much time, not to mention the obligatory -90 rotate every single time annoyance.

How do you like Thea? I've been thinking about switching to Thea or Octane but I couldn't get the Thea demo to use my GPU (Mac) for some reason and models imported through linking as wireframes... Octane is OBJ import only which is a hassle.

Anyway, I want to try a GPU render engine before spending $ on a 12 core render specific build.

[mcramblet]

@sambirchenough

I can't say that I have much experience with Thea, it's one of the rendering engines I'm looking at as a possible replacement to Keyshot. I've been playing around with a demo of both Thea and  NVIDIA Iray, Thea as a stand-alone program with the Fusion plug-in and Iray for Rhino. Thea seems to be pretty decent, Iray has some cool features, like off-loading rendering as well as the on screen preview, to another machine. Neither is, of course, as simple as Keyshot. It's just so slow and expensive. We pay $1000 per year for a 64 core network rendering license and it's still slow. I love to find a replacement to Keyshot, something that integrates well with Fusion 360. Maybe the best bet will be waiting for the rendering within Fusion to mature a bit more, that would be the most convenient.

[sambirchenough]

@mcramblet

Thanks for the info. Yikes, still not great performance on 64 cores! That makes sense though as farms use up to 360 cores for it. Really makes GPU engines look appealing with cost / performance.

It sounds like we're in the same boat, we should stay in touch about finding the ideal solution. I think Fusions render is a long ways off, fine be me as it makes it easier to stay above industry standards.

[mcramblet]

@sambirchenough

For sure! If we come across anything in our searches, let's pass it on. Our network rendering license is coming due in a few months, so I'm going to spend some time seeing what I can find, before then.

[hutchij]

"Maybe the best bet will be waiting for the rendering within Fusion to mature a bit more, that would be the most convenient."

I hope that we can give you what you need directly in Fusion. Don't hesitate to send rendering requests directly to my email - john.hutchinson@autodesk.com

In our internal comparisons with other CPU renderers, the autodesk ray tracer is quite competitive in the interactive case. We'll soon release an offline kernel which is roughly twice as fast as the current one and is more accurate. 

John

[mcramblet]

@hutchij

I'll definitely be looking forward to that release!

[sambirchenough]

@Mike.Grau Thanks but unfortunately thickening the body by 10x won't work here. This needs to be dimensionally accurate for close-up renders.

[sambirchenough]

@mcramblet

I've been playing with Thea over the last few days. I still need to learn about controlling material properties better but I'm getting decent results pretty quickly (after getting the CUDA for mac driver). It's definitely a quicker than keyshot on my hardware for translucents and such. There are certainly Keyshot UI things I like more though, mainly the material graph.

[mcramblet]

So far, Thea and Iray look to be my top choices. Since I also have and use Rhino, I'm also going to check out the Thea Rhino plug-in. It looks like it may simplify things a little bit, in my case, at least. You can also test out the Thea network rendering with the demo. I've tried that and it works pretty well.

[sambirchenough]

@mcramblet still thinking thea or iray? Thea is growing on me.

[PhilProcarioJr]

Check out Substance Designer and Substance Painter with built in IRAY....Once you get used to it you will never look back.