T-Spline surface smoothing

[Anonymous]

I like the sculpting features in Fusion a lot, but anyway after pushing pulling edges and points and surfaces it very often happens that there are ripples, nudges, unexpected folds in the surface, like in the attached image. The fold shown is not on a specific edge or point I could grab and pull out. I have also no clue where it came from. I assume (simply said) I was pulling somewhere and did not notice that I created that fold somewhere else. Here comes my question: Where do I find the tool to "smooth", "Iron" or "sandpaper" this fold. And if it exists, where can I limit the area of such a tool ? I know that with a bunch of clicks here and pulls there I can probably smooth this one. But I am searching for a simple way.

[cekuhnen · Accepted solution]

@Anonymous

"As a user, I would like to able to fix such things more easily (also called UX .-) )"

I am not sure what you mean here including also UX ? How T-Splines works?

Well mesh modeling is mesh modeling. While at first it seems very easy to manipulate, it also requires some practice.

But like NURBS surfacing T-Splines or mesh modeling follows some rules. As long as those are understood and followed

users will have an easier time with it.

I tell quite often my students that also with my years of experience often I start with new projects a study model to explore

topology and such before I really can create the finale mesh model when using T-Splines.

This is just part of the nature of those technologies. We ain't yet able to work like Tony 😉

[Anonymous]

Haha, cekuhnen thanks for closing my topic even if it was not solved. Guess what, last week I met some guys who could drive a car even without knowing how a motor works. 

[TrippyLighting]

I closed the thread, because the answer @cekuhnen provided was perfectly valid. @cekuhnen and @PhilProcarioJr have vast experience in the area of subdivision surface modeling, T-Spline  modeling and surfacing in many different application and combined the three of us have 90 years of combined experience with a large spectrum of CAD and DCC software. We not only using these but also actively helping developing them.

As such you've been told that your T-Spline topology is insufficient created by a suboptimal workflow.

Can it be fixed ?

Yes, but only if you keep your arrogant attitude under control because when you're talking (back) you're not listening and when you're not listening you're not learning!

[PhilProcarioJr]

@Anonymous

"Do it 100% right, then you may not run into issues. As a user, I would like to able to fix such things more easily (also called UX .-) )"

This is true of any 3d app. If you model things incorrectly or against the way the tools work you end up with bad results. What you really want is a relax surface tension tool. That doesn't exist in Fusion. Would it be nice to have yes, but does it exist? No 

So what is the point of not excepting a work around if the tool doesn't exist? It's not going to magically make the tool appear.

The fact is, there is no major work going on with T-Splines right now, most people don't understand them and use them the wrong way and end up with results like yours, so instead of learning the correct way to use the tools they either constantly complain or they give up using T-splines.

I use T-Splines every day and to be honest I can't think of anything I can't model with them. I don't have problems...are there more tools and functionality I want with them? of course, but it's not coming anytime soon and as far as I know it's not being worked on....

So you either accept the work arounds that people give you or complain and get nothing done...the choice is yours.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I sound arrogant, but I am a paying customer and your solution does not work and: if it does not work for the user, it does not work. 

[PhilProcarioJr]

@Anonymous

Paying customer or not, the tool you want doesn't exist nor is it going to over the next year or so. You obviously think that your voice is going to change development so I will leave you to it as I already know where this goes.....

Good luck!

"your solution does not work"

Care to prove this statement?

[cekuhnen]

@Anonymous

I did not close the thread - I marked what I wrote as an answer.

I think my 10 years teaching college level allows me to judge that.

Maybe consider your language, tone, and general approach here.

That will help to be a productive member in this forum.

[cekuhnen]

@Anonymous

"but I am a paying customer and your solution does not work and: if it does not work for the user, it does not work."

Based on what you wrote here it sounds that you judge a tool/process without having fully learned and mastered it

before  before becoming a paying customer.

you are aware of that mastering mesh surfacing like with t splines takes some years of experi be to get very good at like with all

others such as nurbs  and solids?

[Anonymous]

no, you got me wrong. both of you. I was working with Solid for more than 8 years. I changed over to Fusion 1,5 years ago. I had my learning curve with both. We mainly use Inventor (some hundred licenses). Fusion is not Inventor as it comes for free for private persons. All I am saying is that it is not all about features as it was with SW 30years ago. SW is something that must help and assist. Thus usability becomes very important, especially in times of rapid development. We (about 10 testers) are having a hard time with Fusion reg. UX. Forum are there to help with this. But I notice that it is all about someones experience and features. I am a lead architect for SW and Cloud solutions and Innovation Manager in a huge company. If one of our customers has an issue with our software, WE did something wrong, and we are open to learn even from our "dumbest"users. And this is what I am missing here. If it does not work for the user, it does not work. Sorry for getting me wrong.

[cekuhnen]

@Anonymous Could you please explain what you mean with UX here? I really don't get what the problem is. Und das meine ich nun echt ernst.

"Thanks to all supporting this. You guys helped me to make a step forward. Anyway, I do not want to close this, as this is kinda: Do it 100% right, then you may not run into issues. As a user, I would like to able to fix such things more easily (also called UX .-) )"

"Or asking my question again: Is there a tool to "smooth", "sandpaper" or however you call it that helps me getting out of the issue ? :-)"

Again I think you do not understand the concept of mesh topology when using T-Splines and how important it is to obey that if you want to have control over

your surfaces. With NURBS solid or surface you create a set of curves into which you force the surface. While with T-Splines or Mesh SubD you have a different

tool set - no curves but instead mesh faces - you still deal with profiles which will be smoothed via the T-Splines or SubD algorithm. NURBS CV or Mesh CV pretty

much in both cases they are the low poly cage for the surface skinned inside.

"I am a lead architect for SW and Cloud solutions and Innovation Manager in a huge company. If one of our customers has an issue with our software, WE did something wrong, and we are open to learn even from our "dumbest"users. And this is what I am missing here. If it does not work for the user, it does not work."

It works incredibly well for me which is main reason why I use Fusion and T-Splines together with other CAD/Mesh modelers.

Again I think you simply do not understand that T-Splines works different than the tools you are used to from SW.

"But I notice that it is all about someones experience and features." We say this because you repeat the same complaint about the tool set and software and some UX stuff

while for us it seems you do not understand the solutions we provide to you.

So I  would rather say that the users here provide very good and direct feedback.

[Anonymous]

Just one question: How are you related to Autodesk ? 

[TrippyLighting]

We are paying customers!

Here is an explanation what it means to be an Autodesk Expert Elite.

[Anonymous]

I don't get the connection to the ticket ? What has been bounced back and forth does neither help autodesk to improve their product, nor myself. 

[cekuhnen]

@Anonymous

I teach and use Fusion Alias and ReCap 360.

Autodeks unlike other companies is very generous for academia to use the software for free.

Would I teach Rhino or SW or Adobe ? Yes but I find it unethical to force my students to pay a company

money so that students can learn their software when in the future they might be their paying customers anyway.

Affinity software is a great alternative for Adobe and Autodesk allows me to teach all the technology and tools I find important.

for me it is less about the software but the tool and process while fusion in this case because it also is Mac and Win has some

additional bonuses SW does not have. Sure SW has some tools and abilities Fusion doe snot have and that will make SW always

more attraxtive to product designers but when it comes to teaching students who start at 0 Fusion is a very sufficient platform.

and that is all that is to it.

we hav the expert elite badge because of the work we did for the community, how we interact, mentor, and also because of our professional backgrounds.

[cekuhnen]

@Anonymous

I think Himalayas to end mistake to judge Fusion based on what you want to do. It might be the wrong tool for you based on your story.

But that does no mean that that is true for every user. 

There is a lot I want fusion to have that I need as an industrial designer while a mechanical engineer designer might think not that way.

for your need you have to find the right software and not force a tool what you want to do when it is not designed to do so.

thats simply the truth about software development.

[rasmusfjordside]

---

@TrippyLighting wrote:

A trick that @PhilProcarioJr often used]a when T-Splines go haywire is to export the T-Spline control cage as a .obj and then re-import it converts tinpot a T-Spline.

this may only work, however when you are working with a clear quad mesh, something I would strongly recommend.

if you use n-Gons and t-junctions in your T-Splines it may well back you into a corner. I ma pretty certain two the  .obj format does not not support T-Junctions as the .obj format is a lot older than T-Spline technology.

---

@TrippyLighting @PhilProcarioJr How exactly is this done? I could see from this thread on the IdeaStation (https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/fusion-360-ideastation/export-t-spline-cage-to-obj/idi-p/5290191) that the status was Implemented, but I can seem to find a guide to do it. I have a quad mesh .obj that I tried to convert to T-splines but the orientation of the faces is bad - and I cannot correct this with the "Reverse Normal" command found in the Mesh Workspace. So I would like to try and export the Box/Control Frame and re-import the file.

I have attached a file including the bad quad mesh .obj and the converted T-spline body (that I can't get to display as Smooth!) I have also attached a screenshot of the intended shape.

I have you can help

Best regards

Rasmus Fjordside

[PhilProcarioJr]

@rasmusfjordside

Here is the fixed file. I made a video and as soon as it uploads I will post it.

The pillow center overlaps....you can't have that.

[PhilProcarioJr]

@rasmusfjordside

Here is the long way to fix it....I did it the long way to show what's going on.

Anyway I usually start deleting faces and check for internal mesh errors if I don't see the obvious problem. You can always undo to bring the face back if there are no issues under the deleted face.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/community/screencast/74017dc5-76c2-415e-a30e-748b932aaf6d

[rasmusfjordside]

Thank you so much, @PhilProcarioJr, you have been very helpful!

I have fixed bad files so many times in Rhino so the screencast looks pretty familiar 🙂 

I just dont think of Fusion the same was as a software, where you fix bad surfaces and bodies like that. But thank you again for the help.

Best regards

Rasmus Fjordside

[cekuhnen]

@rasmusfjordside

“I just dont think of Fusion the same was as a software, where you fix bad surfaces and bodies like that. But thank you again for the help.”

For Mesh you can do that. With Nurbs patches not so easily. Fusion is more geared towards fixing solids and

one of the main tools I miss at least in DM mode is access to cvs and untrim.