Sketch Text Character Spacing won't accept a negative value

[JFKANSAS]

Typically in typesetting you can apply a negative value to text spacing to bring characters closer together. I was surprised when Fusion won't do this. 

[eric4XAGE]

I would really like to see this feature implemented. I honestly think we are just needing to have this allow negative values and it would make fusion360's type tool worth using in the modeling space. I currently have to do all of my typography in illustrator or inkscape and export them as DXF and import them into fusion360 and frankly DXF are hard to work with in fusion360 too. I would MUCH rather use the type tool and stay inside fusion360 and not leave it's environment.  For an simple example of where this would be used, this image shows the kearning is far too wide on this font for text along a path. If we could reduce the letter spacing it would look fine though. Currently I have to expand the diameter of the path to make it look good but that isn't always an option. It would be ideal if the spacing could be character specific but at this point I'll just be happy with negative spacing as an option for the whole string.

[HughesTooling]

@eric4XAGE  Text on path does have an option to Fit to Path so for your example you have some control in Fusion. 

[HughesTooling]

Fusion even seems to deal with overlapping when path is too short.

[matthewM5R6M]

This still doesn't solve the problem of not being able to make the text closer together, especially when used with straight text, needing to fit characters onto a surface of a part, when the designer seems to want half a book stuffed onto a tiny surface.   Part number, PO number, cast number, revision level, date of manufacture.....the list goes on....

If I make the text fit by decreasing the height of the characters, it can become hard to read, when all I want to do is decrease the spacing between the characters! 

[HughesTooling]

Although it's not as convenient as just using the standard text, fit to path with a line will decrease or increase the spacing between characters.

[eric4XAGE]

Thank you Mark Hughes! I appreciate a working solution, I still would love to see negative values as a feature of the character spacing but I will use arcs and lines with the "fit to path" option in my work flow now so I can keep my work inside of Fusion360. 

[mark]

This is an excellent work around.

[matthewM5R6M]

Until you have to do multiple line engraving on a part, make it all fit, and try to get it to look even.  It is a workaround that does function, but is far from the ideal solution of just allowing negative values in the spacing field. 

[matthewM5R6M]

I just tried this, the stick fonts do not follow this method at all.  I'm using Iso.shx, and Isocp.shx.   So this has left me in the usual state of having to make text in a DXF file, and import it.   

[MichaelT_123]

 Hi MatthewM5R6M,

SHX is the proprietary file format, masquerading as a font.
Its primary purpose was quickly building vector objects using computing resources as sparingly as possible.
Think about ... Columbia and Apollo missions ... or even visit The National Air and Space Museum to see "how primitive things were then". SHX was a part of the mission.
F360 tries to divert direct fonts processing to the OS (Win, Apple), where SHX is out of reach.
SHX is a primitive format; so perhaps it would be pretty easy to overlay it with additional functionality, e.g. char spacing parameters. But at the same time, it is ... a relict ... a dinosaur poo ... so nobody dares to touch it.

Regards
MichaelT

[HughesTooling]

Looking at those fonts it looks like the space character is too wide. Don't think these fonts would work well no matter what control you have over spacing between characters because the space would always be too big.

Here's standard text and text on path both 2mm high. The spacing can be reduced with the path version but these fonts just have way too much space for the space (space character even looks wider than all the other characters).

Hard to really measure the widths but looks like the space is at least 1mm wider than the standard characters!

[MichaelT_123]

Hi Mr Mark Hughes,

In the early stages of computing, particularly monitor technologies, placing character glyph on the screen was even more challenging than today. Due to the limited resolution of the screen canvas, there was a requirement to design fonts (their strokes and spacings) to match the monitor's raster size. What you are observing … is the past time which overlays the present.
By the way, placing glyphs on the raster grid is still in use today … and it is called glyphs hinting.

Regards
MichaelT

[HughesTooling]

@MichaelT_123  I guess the iso specification is part of the problem as well? If I use the iso TFT font in Rhino (or any other program) the spacing is very big compared to other fonts.

Here at the top is the standard spacing, then I use -1, -2, -3 and -4 to reduce spacing. But you still have a problem with the letter "i" and the space character as the spacing is the box used to create the characters in. Don't know if some programs actually fit a bounding box to the character then use a fixed gap but I'd guess the space character could still be a problem.

There are hundreds of SHX fonts available so you might find one with better spacing but would be quite time consuming to find. Seem to remember you could create your own in AutoCAD using blocks or drawings for each character but again would be a lot of work.

Mark

[cooperAL5P5]

+1 to this feature request. Negative percentages support for character spacing.

[philipp_klaschka]

This is annoying, as entering an negative number shows perfectly the preview as intended. But does not allow to commit.

[MichaelT_123]

Hi Mr HughesTooling,

"Don't know if some programs actually fit a bounding box to the character then use a fixed gap but I'd guess the space character could still be a problem."

The glyph (character) metrix is quite complex. You can find the simple (or even simplistic) introduction to the subject at: https://freetype.org/freetype2/docs/glyphs/glyphs-3.html ...

Assembling glyphs into scripts adds other layers of complexity ... of different natures.

One example is a recommended replacement of important GDI font-related function controlling  (wholesale) glyph spacing (SetTextCharacterExtra) with a much more sophisticated call to ExtTextOut requiring (in advanced mode) calculation of individual glyphs  positions and supplying re-adjustment table. It is not easy, and that's why Adobe charges handsomely for the service.

I emulated such a process (primitively) , but only for the previous instance of textObj; the current one is just a call for OS GDI service.

Post Face,

SHXs are not fonts; they only masquerade as such.

Regards

MichaelT

[rongwilliams]

I am just learning F360 and can't believe a design program doesnt allow kerning of fonts, or negative tracking. Or using of a full font family, or increasing the percentage height, or percentage width of each character.  I was like, there's gotta be a hidden character menu, but no.

Youre literally allowed 3 controls related to fonts:  Bold, italic, and increase tracking, which does an ugly job and is NOT the same as positive kerning. Youre allow more controls in the Cricut's manufacturer's web-based free software with their cheapo vinyl cutters.

Im coming from a typographical background trying to create 3D designs of beautiful text and it's not possible in F360.   You can't even type beautiful text in the first place, within the program.  

I need to use Adobe PS or Illustrator, then export, then import.  BUT by then I've lost the data contained in the font, and if I want to type a different word using the same settings I have to start from scratch back in Adobe.

Thats crazy.  I guess i'm gonna go focus on blender.