Sketch outlines not appearing when created from object face

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I seem to have a strange issue now where sketch outlines are not appearing in dark blue like they normally would. This only happens if I draw a shape from scratch, and then try to make a sketch on one of it's faces. If I draw a sketch from scratch with no objects turned on or near by, the outlines appear just fine. Please see the two images below to see what I'm talking about:

Dark blue outline wont show up when this sketch was created from an object face.

Dark blue lines appear fine when I drew the right shape from scratch.

[keqingsong]

Hey @Anonymous, can you invite me to your project so that I can take a look more closely? My email is keqing.song@autodesk.com. 

[keqingsong · Accepted solution]

Ok I figured it out for you. Follow these steps as shown in the gif: 

1. window select the sketch

2. right click and select edit sketch

3. window select the sketch again

4. right click on an edge and select break link

You should now see the blue lines. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks man!! Why it doesn't it trace and make editable lines when it gets created in the first place? Seems really dumb.. It seems like every thing that I want to do f360 fights back instead of just being easy or automatic. Its a great program just tedious for no apparent reason in a lot of cases. hire some conservative programmers that can streamline your program.. To many normies in tech with a poor understanding of function over form , efficiency, flow, speed, why NOT to use annoying mouse over everything,etc.. ya know the utmost basics of program design.

[john.sullivan2]

Hi, I'm encountering this same exact issue, except when I try to follow this posted solution there is no 'Break Link' option in the contextual menu as described. I am using v2.0.6670 on MacOS 10.14.6. Is the 'Break Link' option something that was removed since the solution was posted, and if so, how can I make the sketch outlines visible again?

[laughingcreek]

This behavior has been around forever.  I don't know why the fix doesn't work for you.   Break link seems to still be working for me.

BUT

The root of the issue is the geometry of the face being projected automatically to begin with.  You can avoid this by deselecting "auto project geometry on active sketch plane", which is what most everybody here does.

IMO the "fix" of un-linking the projected curves is kind of stupid anyway.  If you use a projected sketch element, it's usually because you want the projected element to update with model changes (this is a parametric modeler after all).

[john.sullivan2]

Interesting, that makes sense. But now, when I deselect the 'Auto project geometry on active sketch plane', if I select a face and create a sketch from it, it creates an entirely blank sketch. When I edit the sketch there is simply nothing there. With the 'Auto project geometry...' setting checked, it creates the sketch correctly but without the outlines showing.

I don't know if it matters, but my specific process leading to this issue are slightly different, though I think it is the same problem: I have an existing component, that contains a body with a flat face. I select the face and from the contextual menu select 'Create sketch'. And I've checked many times over and there is never a 'Break link' option when I edit the sketch and select a sketch element.

As you state, yes it would be preferred for the sketch to remain linked to the object so it would update if the underlying model changes.

[laughingcreek]

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@john.sullivan2 wrote:

...I select the face and from the contextual menu select 'Create sketch'. And I've checked many times over and there is never a 'Break link' option when I edit the sketch and select a sketch element....

I can confirm that is the case for me also. so not just you.  You can still access the break command by pressing "s" for the short cut menu and searching for "break"

@jeff_strater  any thoughts on this behavior?

... when I deselect the 'Auto project geometry on active sketch plane', if I select a face and create a sketch from it, it creates an entirely blank sketch. When I edit the sketch there is simply nothing there. With the 'Auto project geometry...' setting checked, it creates the sketch correctly but without the outlines showing.

For me a blank sketch is preferred.  I then manually project in ONLY the elements I need to reference.  with auto project on, you end up with a profile of the face, which just clutters up you sketch

.. With the 'Auto project geometry...' setting checked, it creates the sketch correctly but without the outlines showing...

---

I've never understood the behavior of the underlying sketch elements not showing.  I would consider that a bug, but I don't think AD does.  This goes back years.  But, then again, it never effects me b/c I turn off auto project.  @jeff_strater -can you shed light on the thought process for this behavior?  

[jeff_strater]

good questions, @laughingcreek and @john.sullivan2 .  They prompted some research this morning.  It turns out that we blocked this about a year and a half ago, as part of another project.  That project was around preventing duplicate projected geometry from being added to a sketch (imagine you project a rectangular face that is perpendicular to the sketch plane - it would result in two duplicate lines in the sketch).  However, the blocking of Break Link seems to be collateral damage that we are now looking into.

The tale of why the face geometry is invisible is a longer one.  There was lots of debate about this internally.  The main driving factor was "cleanliness of the design".  Imagine if you sketch on a face with 100 holes in it - your sketch would immediately be full of purple geometry.  And the design team thought that looked bad.  So - invisible geometry was the solution to the aesthetic concerns.  And, most of the time, it's not really a problem.  If the body geometry is visible, you can easily see where the curves in the geometry would be, because it exactly matches up with the model edges of that face.  So, when you are sketching, it appears as if you can snap to those edges (in reality, there are sketch curves there, which is what you are snapping to in reality).  Where it really gets weird is if you shut off the body geometry, because there is clearly a profile there, but any internal geometry is suddenly invisible.  We continue to debate whether this is a good thing or a bad thing...

[davebYYPCU]

For me, They are there, but you can’t see them, is just weird, I understand it, but not likely to get used to it.

[john.sullivan2]

@laughingcreek @jeff.strater many thanks for your responses and clarification on the issue.

Perhaps there is a smarter way to accomplish my task at hand: My current workflow is to create a design that is comprised of several parts for fabrication, some 3D printed and some laser cut. The final step for laser cutting is to use the method under discussion - select faces, create sketch with the correct facial features and export to .dxf for printing. Sometimes there are minor details that need to be added to the sketch before exporting, thus the utility of sketch outlines.

Formerly I would export the .dxf from the original part sketch, however I find it much easier to create a new clean sketch based on the finished part face, as the original sketches are likely to have extra geometry that shouldn't be included.

Attached is a basic example of my current workflow (with Auto project geometry ON) - any alternate suggestions?

[davebYYPCU]

Yes Sir, install the DXFer Addin, from Github, 

Currently you go through all the duplicated sketches and Export single files per part.

DXFer allows all selected finished faces to be converted to one layer per part in one Dxf file.

I can divide my parts up into material files, one file per thickness.

Can’t live without it.

[john.sullivan2]

Thanks @davebYYPCU, I checked out DXFer and it's a useful tool. However it doesn't quite fit my needs in this circumstance where I may have to edit the sketches after capturing the faces to add additional detail before exporting the .dxf. I'll definitely use it when I can export directly, and it's a good trick when using different thicknesses or materials as you describe.

[davebYYPCU]

I did say selected finished faces

but if you get some benefit, then that's fine.  For me it is all in the one file that is the huge benefit.  I did not get good results from the blocks settings, and I don't use them, so be careful.

Might help....

.

[Anonymous]

Hope this helps. I don't know why its not showing for you.

[john.sullivan2]

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@davebYYPCU wrote:

I did not get good results from the blocks settings, and I don't use them, so be careful.

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Same, the blocks setting opened as a blank layer in Adobe Illustrator, but the layers setting worked as expected.

[jeff_strater]

@OmnisLabz - "Break" is not the same tool as "Break Link".  As was pointed out here, Break Link is just not available on the invisible geometry produced when sketching on a face.  You can't get around it even with the S key search box, because that command is not a toolbar command.

We are having a spirited debate, triggered by this thread, about whether the current situation is good, and should be changed, so bringing this up was a good thing.

@john.sullivan2 - the video you show is the workflow that we recommend for doing DXF for laser cutting.  DXFer is also a very useful tool for this.  However, you said that sometimes you want to modify the geometry, and DXFer gets doesn't facilitate that, which is correct.  As part of the internal discussion, I did learn a well-hidden trick:  If you use the Project command, and select the same face you sketched on, it makes the geometry visible, and also available to Break Link.  See the screencast:

[laughingcreek]

edit: I wrote the below and then realized that the break sketch links command is part of the MSTsketch tools add-in.  oops, sorry for my confusion.

@jeff_strater  FYI-this works with the invisible geometry created from the "auto project geometry on active sketch plane" functionality, which is why I suggested it as a work around earlier.  still don't like the idea of invisible geometry.  but like I said, I don't use that preference, so it never effects me.  I wonder how many experienced users use it?  It takes literally 3 actions to get the geometry projected into the sketch with out the auto project turned on (P on keyboard, select face, enter or OK).  

[davebYYPCU]

I had it turned off, and knew about the face trick, but I am “seeing” the hidden curves again recently, I am in so many user files that may be where it crops up, but maybe a default preference after update thing too, have to check that.