Negative offset in sketch not working

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Fusion updated this morning (11 June 2018) and now I cannot offset in the negative direction in a sketch.

I can enter the minus sign and the offset value but nothing happens. Usually when the minus sign is entered the offset line offsets to the other side. Not any more.

I can however drag the offset line to the negative side, and then type in an offset value

I have already tried to restart fusion - the same thing happens.

I just know that someone is going to say  - "Well, what is the problem?"

The problem, from my point of view, is that you are adding an extra step into the process.

1. Select offset.

2. Check whether "chain selection" is ticked or not.

3. Select line to offset.

4. Drag line to correct side for offset.

5. Enter offset value.

6. repeat as required.

Can this not be an either/or - with the option of dragging the offset line to the other side OR entering a negative offset value?

Regards,

Brett

[Anonymous]

I notice that as well and I could see how it could be frustrating.

I wonder though how fusion determines what is the positive and what is the negative offset direction. For example an open spline.

[Anonymous]

I have no idea about open splines, but in sketch the positive and negative
directions from a line seem to be determined by the direction in which you
draw the line. I.E. drawing the line from bottom to top, top to bottom,
left to right or right to left

Having said that, I haven't been keeping track, but I think that it is also
a bit arbitrary as I pretty sure that there have been occasions where 2
lines drawn in the same direction have had positive offsets in opposite
directions.

Brett

[TrippyLighting]

This has nothing to do with the update and has been that way for a long time.

You can only specify positive/negative the first time you create the offset.

If you want to edit the offset afterwards it will not allow you top specify a negative number.

[Anonymous]

Hi Peter,

Sorry, this may come up twice.

I am talking about the first offset of any particular line.

I know about the restriction on changing the side after a line has been offset.

This has nothing to do with that.

Yesterday I could specify a negative offset. Today I cannot. Fusion updated today. Draw your own conclusions.

Regards,

Brett

[TrippyLighting]

I know that sounds silly, but can you create a screencast and show that behavior ?

I just tried his several times and it works fine here on my Mac.

[rohit.bapat]

Hello all,

I just wanted to jump in. We have introduced the Flip button in the offset command dialog to help users easily flip the offset without making offset dimension negative. So to get the offset on the other side user can click on Flip button. Workflow can be as follows

Offset command->Select geometry->Input offset dimension (only positive otherwise it will show in red like other dimensions)->Click Flip button to flip the offset geometry on other side 

Please let me know if I understood the problem wrongly.

Thank you,

Best Regards

Rohit Bapat

[TrippyLighting]

Ha, now that the update happened on my computer I see the same. Doh ...

[Anonymous]

Hi Peter and Rohit,

I'm using windows 10. Not sure if that makes a difference. 

There is no point in creating a screencast. Nothing happens. Select offset. Enter negative number in the box  and hit enter or click on ok. Nothing happens, the red offset line remains at the default 1.00mm position on the positive side of the line (whichever side of the line that is).

Rohit, please note that the negative number entered does NOT turn red, either in the small box or in the offset dialog box. Also note that when I enter a number in either box, it does NOT show up in the other box, the number in the other box remains as 1.00.

Rohit, thanks for pointing out the flip button. However, it is actually simpler to drag the line across to the other side then enter a number, rather than entering a number and going hunting for a button in the offset dialog (which is on another screen). Either way it is an additional step in the offset process and I can type "-10" faster than both of those options.

Regards,

Brett

[Anonymous]

Hi Peter,

I am so glad I'm not the only chump.

Regards,

Brett

[Anonymous]

I updated also and have the same issue.

It was much easier for me to select the geometry with the mouse, enter an offset (negative or positive), then press the enter key.

Now I must select geometry with mouse, select the direction with the mouse (or the flip button with the mouse), enter the offset, then press the enter key.

An "extra step" has been added to improve workflow????

[Anonymous]

I will gladly pay $100 for this flip bull**** feature to be reverted to the more streamlined workflow of not having to even touch the mouse to determine the offset other than the initial curve selection.

This is a MASSIVE workflow hinderance. Whoever thought this was a good idea should be fired.

I'm sure it streamlines something under the covers, making the application more efficient or scalable or whatever but it isn't worth the stability and scalablility for us who do simple 3dprinting stuff. Give us the option to go back to the intuitive way. 

[mavigogun]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

This is a MASSIVE workflow hinderance. Whoever thought this was a good idea should be fired.

I'm sure it streamlines something under the covers, making the application more efficient or scalable or whatever but it isn't worth the stability and scalablility for us who do simple 3dprinting stuff. Give us the option to go back to the intuitive way. 

---

It seems the Flip option was introduced to address the negative value fault, which I suffered from, too- likely because, for whatever reason, address of the complication introduced by the negative value wasn't do-able within the time constraint allotted to the problem.   Similarly, rather than firing staff working to better Fusion, time and productivity might be  better supported by firing user tinkercad4CDC2.   Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

The big problem is when we try to use the offset with parametric variable. Negative values doesn't work at all.

[mavigogun]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

The big problem is when we try to use the offset with parametric variable. Negative values doesn't work at all.

---

It just worked for me- but only after starting with a positive value.    This should be no problem, as the initial positive value is relative to your initial design intent/selection.

Create sketch element> create positive parameter > offset by positive value > change value to negative

Sure, your initial value has to be positive- but so what?   Again, "positive" here is relative to your initial selected orientation... which can be flipped.   You can't start with a negative value because there is no relative offset to be less than!

[Anonymous]

was this problem ever resolved? thank you.

[Anonymous]

Not really.

The problem was caused by changing something that worked fairly well to something that did not work quite as well, by adding an extra step. Both versions work, but I think that the modified version is not nearly as intuitive for work flow.

There are other similar operations that have not been changed in this way.

Copy and paste comes to mind. You can copy and paste a object (sketch objects or solid models), drag it in any one of 6 different directions on 3 different planes and then insert a number (with or without a minus sign). 

VERY IMPORTANT - the previewed move in copy and paste, can then still be changed in the other direction by adding or removing the minus sign before you press enter to accept the move - without dragging it again.

Within the obvious limitation that offset is restricted to 2 directions on 1 plane, why can it not function like copy and paste, as described above. Try entering a negative number into the box after you have selected the line you want to offset.

So, no, this is not a solution.

[Anonymous]

So we must accept an extra step in an otherwise intuitive workflow to account for those few users who cant get it right? Awesome. Go ahead and fire me ("whatever that means") because I don't want to be led by crippled few who fight the norm with their inability to cope with the default workflow like the rest of us. Woohoo we all must suffer due to the select fews' handicap. 

[Anonymous]

No, it wasn’t. 

I dont understand why I can enter a negative 3D offset (e.g. a press pull) but not a 2D offset. Seems very counterproductive to me. 

[lucasproko]

Hey all,

I wanted to update everyone that we've heard the feedback and are starting a project to re-implement negative inputs to Offset in Sketch.

The reason we removed this functionality is because the concept of a negative sketch dimension is a bit more ambiguous than a negative Extrude or Press-Pull dimension. For instance, with Extrude, the Distance is measured from the Profile Plane to the destination. Thus, a positive 2 inch extrude is in one direction and a negative 2 inch extrude is in the other. Now, I admit that you can make the exact same argument for Offset since Offset does have a direction as well, however, it gets more muddled as you look at other sketch dimensions. A typical Sketch Dimension is between two entities but it is ambiguous whether it is from the first entity to the second, or from the second entity to the first. So if we started allowing negative sketch dimensions for Offset, it could become confusing why an Offset dimension could be negative, but a regular dimension must be positive. 

After review, we have decided on two enhancements to make this workflow better in Fusion

1. First, we will essentially be reverting back to our old behavior of allowing negative dimensions when you are creating an Offset to flip the direction, but once the Offset is committed, the corresponding dimension in the sketch will be positive. 
2. Next, if you wish to Flip the direction of the Offset after creating it, we will offer an Edit Offset capability which will launch the Offset dialog and give you access to the Flip button.

That means it will be easy to flip on creation, all dimensions will stay positive, and you'll now be able to flip the direction of the Offset after creation without using the Change Parameters table.

This is going to take a bit of time to finalize and test, but in the meantime let us know if you have any other suggestions. Many thanks for the feedback thus far.