Joint origin orientation for coil spring

[CruftMeister]

I'm trying to join a coil spring on which I've flattened the ends by using the boundary fill method (as shown here in the forum by "HughesTooling") to a cylindrical bore in a housing but am not able to get the joint origin to attach in the right orientation. - see screencast below.

I would have assumed that the on-the-fly joint origin would either:

1) be default oriented normal to the extrusion axis of the spring (its not)

or

2) allow me to change the orientation (Either I can't or can't figure out how to do this)

I've succeeded in this effort by putting a dedicated joint origin on the coils spring - the tool to do this allows me to reorient the joint origin after I placing it on the coil. However, I'd like to do it with the on-the-fly tools, but can't seem to figure out how to do that.

Am I missing something, or can this only be done via the dedicated origin tool?  If the later is the case, I'll add this to the Idea Station as the current default makes no sense to me . . .

Thanks  -

[masa.minohara]

Hi @CruftMeister,

Thank you for posting! As far as I know, when you select the origin to place a joint, the joint orientation is aligned to the origin. (The image below shows the orientation of the joint disc.)

Instead of selecting the origin, you can create a sketch point and select it so that you don't need a joint origin but I'm not sure that's what you want. 

[CruftMeister]

Hi Masa,

Thanks for the post.  That is an interesting alternative I had not thought of.  I've found a lot of spots in Fusion where you can't do something seemingly simple, but just adding a point will fix the issue.

In this case, the other thing that can be done is to attach a "Joint Origin" to the origin - rather than using the 'on-the-fly" joint origins.  The Joint Origin will also come in with the incorrect orientation (I think this is a bug in both cases and should be fixed) but, the Joint Origin dialog offers the option to reorient to normal to the z-axis, something that is not offered on the "On-the-Fly" joint origins.  The only real downside is it adds another step to the process and it is unexpected so it throws off the new user who is expecting the joint origin to come in normal to the z axis.

Would you say the current behavior is intended, or a bug?

One other question - how were you able to get the image of the joint disc icon with the axis arrows attached?  This is a useful reference, if I can find it myself I'll download it into my cheat sheet folder.  🙂

Thanks,

Art

[TrippyLighting]

The explicit joint origin, when placed aligns itself with the surface normal of the object it is placed on. What cannot be seen in the image is that the joint origin is yellow on the underside to indicate that this is it's negative Z-oriatation. I'd say this is indicated.

As to the image, this can be created in Fusion 360 is a couple minutes. And then  you can have it in any resolution you want to. Maybe we can convince @masa.minohara to post the model 😉

[masa.minohara]

Hi @CruftMeister and TrippyLighting,

Thank you for your response! Actually the image above is a screenshot of Youtube that my colleague posted. Please check out the video below. I think this is very helpful!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wctwh68vs8c

Regarding the issue where the joint origin comes in with the incorrect orientation, I was unable to reproduce it. Personally I am not aware of bugs but I suggest flipping or re-orienting the joint origin when the orientation is incorrect.

[CruftMeister]

Hi Masa,

I think my screencast clearly shows exactly how the on-the-fly origin comes in incorrectly - i.e. not normal to there Z axis - so this is a bug.  If there were a way to reorient the origin here, then at least there would be a work around, however I can see no way to reorient it.  The only way I can see to join a cylindrical feature like this to a bore is to put a dedicated joint origin in place first, which will also come in incorrectly (i.e. not normal to the Z axis, or axis of revolution if you prefer) and will need to be edited to change the orientation. Both of these situations are bugs.

If you disagree, please post a screen cast of how you can put an on-the-fly joint origin on the axis of a cylindrical part (e.g. coil spring) and please also show how it can be reoriented as I can not see any way to do this.  Also, please show how you can put a dedicated Joint Origin onto the origin of a revived surface (such as a coil spring ) and have it so the JO is normal to the axis of rotation.

Regards,

Art

[masa.minohara]

Hi Art,

Thank you for your response! I am sorry but I think I'm confused. In your screencast, you are picking the origin and it seems like it's normal to Z axis?

[CruftMeister]

Hi Masa,

As F360 just got the actual axis letters added onto the origins, it appears what I have been calling Z in this example is X or Y, but what matters is the axis one would position a spring in a bore - the axis of revolution - that is the only axis that one could imagine using to orient a coil spring into a bore and the axis of which I spoke.

Please look again at my screencast, or perhaps, better, create a spring (it is a pre-built feature in Fusion) and try adding an origin to the axis of revolution -  so you can position the spring in a cylindrical bore.  When you realize that it is impossible to get the origin to come in normal to the axis of revolution, try it again with a dedicated origin, and see that it is impossible as well.

Does this now make sense?  Do you now agree this is a bug?

Thanks,

Art

[masa.minohara]

Hi @CruftMeister,

Thank you for the clarification!  As mentioned earlier, if you pick the origin, the joint is aligned with the orientation of the origin. It seems like you have created the coil on XZ plane so if you try to place a joint at the origin, the orientation will be incorrect and you need to add a joint origin here so that you can re-orient. I do not consider it as a bug but I agree with you that it would be great to be able to  flip and re-orient within the Joint feature.

[masa.minohara · Accepted solution]

Hi Art,

I made another screencast. I just noticed it is quicker to create a sketch point and place a center point of a coil on it. Please make sure to activate the coil component when you create a sketch. I hope this helps!

[CruftMeister]

Hi Masa,

Thanks.  I guess I will just make sure I always make the axis of a revolved feature along Z.  It would definitely be helpful if you could choose the axis of attachment.

Art