Fillet/Rounded corners issue.

Fillet/Rounded corners issue.

TOwens777
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Message 1 of 86

Fillet/Rounded corners issue.

TOwens777
Advocate
Advocate

I am working on a guitar body.  It's a solid model with no t-splines.  I'm tryting to round the corners off (see attached.)

The Fillet function does not work stating the fillet cannot be created at the requested size (which happens to be any size.)

 

Is there another method I can use to round off these corners?

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

Tim

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25,286 Views
85 Replies
Replies (85)
Message 41 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

Hmm, on closer inspection it is difficult to get good G2/smoothness blending at edge boundaries where cutting tool surfaces enter into solid bodies.  So for something like this guitar, if need to make a Tspline network, might as well do the whole guitar as a network as Trippy did. 

Jesse

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Message 42 of 86

TOwens777
Advocate
Advocate

G2 smoothness?  What is that?  Sorry, I'm new to this.  

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Message 44 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

That's a pretty good link Trippy provided, but yeah, with G2 smoothness, in calculus terms meaning the 2nd derivative of a curve is the same immediately adjacent on both sides of a point, then you get a nice uninterrupted light reflection from the physical body.  Here is two splines with curvature comb turned on to show how they can be tangent at their meeting point (meaning 1st derivative or slope is the same, their curvature/2nd derivative can be different/not match up.

curvaturecomb.jpg

 

In the above example the two curvature values immediately adjacent to the meeting point are opposite in sign.  You can visually see that in how the lower spline is curving upwards near the meeting point while the upper spline is curving downwards at the meeting point. 

 

Zebra analysis is good at showing abrupt discontinuities to surface smoothness.  Here is G0 (not even tangent to each other) between the "shoulder" patch and the surrounding surfaces in the example below:

g0.jpg

 

Then G1

g1.jpg

 

And finally G2

g2.jpg

 

As a prominent contributor to these forums would say, you really want to go for G2 continuity between surfaces to get nice professional looking things, although I wouldn't obsess over it too much 😉

 

Jesse

Message 45 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but a great way to do this guitar is to make the entire perimeter with Trippy's method, and then just use the Patch patch tool and choose curvature (G2 at boundary) or tangent (G1 at boundary) for the large flat area.  Here is Trippy's model with the inner faces deleted.

guitar1.jpg

 

And the patch made (and with zebra curvature analysis turned on). 

guitar2.jpg

 

This is now a pretty darn fast method, and one doesn't have to worry about apposing faces being aligned with each other. 

 

Jesse

Message 46 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

I would also add that if doing the guitar from scratch, would probably try for my Tspline faces, that I then keep duplicating, to have curving sides for both for the top as well as bottom of the guitar, then finish it off with a patch for both the top and bottom.  

Jesse

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Message 47 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

Actually can get a decent sized fillet on the bottom (I believe the sharp turns at the "horns" probably significantly limit the fillet radius size).  I first did a Patch patch with Connected/G0 option, then a Boundary Fill and filleted the solid body. 

filleted.jpg

 

I've attached the .f3d.  I'm really glad Trippy did this model for us so we can all learn a lot!

 

Jesse

Message 48 of 86

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

I  had not worked with the path environment and had not even though of doing it this way. Awesome and worth a K.U.D.OS

Collaboration is something that Fusion 360 is geared towards and this Forum 360 proves it! 


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Message 49 of 86

Phil.E
Autodesk
Autodesk

IE is not letting me add kudos here, but if I could, well there'd be a kudo storm!!

 

Thanks all, really great work on this post!





Phil Eichmiller
Software Engineer
Quality Assurance
Autodesk, Inc.


Message 50 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

Yeah it's really great helping people out and learning at the same time! 

 

I should mention for those interested in this method that both Tangent and Curvature continuity options for the Patch tool will cause the patch surface to follow the slope of what it's patching to, so if you don't want a minimal slope in the patch area of the guitar, be sure that the Tspline face perimeter "template" has the horizontal face as indeed being horizontal ( such as in Trippy's model) which can be readily observed in box mode (Alt + 1, while curved mode is Alt + 3). 

 

Jesse

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Message 51 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

I final word of caution, regarding fillets on these difficult edges, is if using the blue arrow, it can be a little risky, and is best to turn off Incremental Move in the Grid and Snaps button on the screen bottom, and really zoom in and move the arrow very slowly until find where the fillet fails, then back off.  There is also a fillet script that will find the maximum possible fillet for you, but haven't tried it yet.  This video describes the script.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLVfYJMxsPQ

 

Jesse

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Message 52 of 86

TOwens777
Advocate
Advocate

Ok, I read over the links and posts about G2 smoothness.  Thank you guys for posting!!  I think I have a basic understanding now.  Some of the other terminology you guys are using might as well be Chinese. I'm very new to modeling and it's been a lonnnnggggg time since I took calculus and algebra so the mathematics side makes my eyes water. 

 

You guys have inspired me with your awesome models.   I'm going to take another stab at creating this using Sculpt.  Wish me luck...

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Message 53 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

I've only recently dived into this modeling stuff as well (basically since discovering Fusion 360), so just dive in and be sure to keep asking questions that you need to!  Really the math behind all this modeling coolness can stay behind the scenes, I just mentioned the calculus aspect as background info.  Definitely good luck with trying stuff out, and like I said be sure to ask any questions you need to, so we can continue to learn in that process of looking into them!

Jesse

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Message 54 of 86

TOwens777
Advocate
Advocate

Thanks Jesse!

 

 I'm starting over with the body.  I am using the sketch ouline as a to create faces in sculpt (see attached pic.)

 

I tried a couple times creating a extruded box (see attached pic) and deleting areas outside the guitar outline.  I then manipulate and bridged the deleted areas to form the shape. I liked this because I could control the symetry better.

 

Questions: Do you have any suggestions on how many faces to create?  What orientation should the faces be?  How many should I use?

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Message 55 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

That's an interesting approach you're taking, although from my experience trying to force a 2D rectangular mesh into a highly irregular 2D mesh (i.e. guitar face) is going to be a lot more trouble than it's worth.  My method of choice is definitely Trippy's, where you crate a two face "template" at the perimeter of the guitar, then keep duplicating that around the entire perimeter using the Edit Form and Alt button.  A big advantage of this method, as apposed to the one I was originally advocating, is that the curvature/fillet around the guitar will remain constant unless manually adjusted in specific areas.

 

Note to create the original 2 face template, you make that by creating a single face by right clicking and choosing Face, then once that 4 sided face is made, Edit form for that face and select an edge of that rectangular face, then hold Alt button down to drag a 2nd face downwards perpendicular to first face (best to do it in box mode, i.e. Alt 1), as shown in Trippy's video.  Note to do this, in the Edit form pallete for Coordinate Space I temporarily switch to View space, so the 3 arrow triad aligns with my view (remember to switch back though to World space). As you duplicate these two perpendicular faces around the guitar, make the face sections as long as possible while they still follow the curve of the guitar sufficiently when in curve mode, i.e. Alt 3.  Use Trippy's model, or my modified model of his, as a guide for how long these faces around the perimeter should be.  Once you complete that phase post back here for more help!

 

Jesse

Message 56 of 86

Anonymous
Not applicable

Another suggestion is to practice the Modified Trippy Method on a simpler/smaller curved shape first.

Jesse

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Message 57 of 86

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Your approach is unlikely lead to satisfying results as it involves way too many faces and edges to manipulate..

I created this screencast to show my approach. My general guideline is to create as few polygons as necessary to "flow" around the perimeter of the guitar as that is really what defines the shape.

You can always add more edges if a particular area needs more definition. Add more eges as late as possible in the process.

The fewer faces and edes you have the quicker you can edit and make modifications.

 

I am not sure there are good car models in  the Fusion Gallery, but you'd be surprised with how few polgons the sometimes complex shapes in vehicles can be created. But, again, that takes some experience.

 

 


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Message 58 of 86

TOwens777
Advocate
Advocate

Yeah, I had problems when I tried that method before.

 

Question on the video.  In the first part after you add the plane and extrude it down you say, "now I start extruding the profile along the outline of the guitar."  Are you just using the plane you added to form the shape or did you add a face?

 

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Message 59 of 86

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

With the  the "Edit Form" dialog open, double clicking on an edge selects a whole edge loop.

Then while holding down the "Alt" key and start pulling on the manipulators and you'll exttrude from the existing ege loop. In this case you'll extrud the whole profile, not just the top face. 


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Message 60 of 86

TOwens777
Advocate
Advocate

Yes, I understand that part.  My question is: the first item you create is a plane. My understand is that a plane is a reference space to place other objects.  I thought you would use a face to do the actual sculpt but it looks like you are shaping the guitar using the plane you created.  Is that right?  Am I missing something?

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