Filet command really?

Filet command really?

veso58S5W
Advocate Advocate
1,396 Views
24 Replies
Message 1 of 25

Filet command really?

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Simple question:
Why Filet command so much in 360?!?
Answer is probably really complicated. 

Any of the filets what Fusion didn't want to do OnShape did without any problem?!?

I really like 360, it's almost what I imagine perfect, but....

 

Edited by
Discussion_Admin

0 Likes
1,397 Views
24 Replies
Replies (24)
Message 2 of 25

etfrench
Mentor
Mentor

Guessing games are fun, but a little more explanation of what you want to fillet would be helpful.

p.s. The red error in the timeline indicates that any operation you do may fail.

ETFrench

EESignature

Message 3 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Sorry for not saying what I want to filet. One of those "thinking that everybody else know what I want to do"Smiley Sad
I reviewed your comment about Red Warning. So I made new file, with same components.
I want to filet intersection of those two bodies.

I made both bodies in Fusion, Imported one as Component and Joined them. Fusion did 5mm Filet, I need 20mm. And, I need it all around, to the upper connection line. 

Here is attached "clean" file, with started 5mm filet.

0 Likes
Message 4 of 25

etfrench
Mentor
Mentor

The best I can do is a 13.95mm fillet after creating the long horizontal piece as a single loft.

Duct.jpg

I suspect the problem area is circled in red.

 

ETFrench

EESignature

0 Likes
Message 5 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Thanks for trying. 

What is frustrating to me is that other program do it, almost without hesitation. I have to back and forth, and other program interface - I don't like.

Interesting to say, if you look on the bottom part of the short tube (Head Tube of the bike frame) on that end I had Down Tube joined, asked for 25mm radius filet, and - voila, 360 did in second. Without any thinking, just perfect all around.
I hope AutoDesk improve filet script.

0 Likes
Message 6 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Here is 20mm filetTTHT-OnS.jpg

0 Likes
Message 7 of 25

etfrench
Mentor
Mentor

What did you do differently?

ETFrench

EESignature

0 Likes
Message 8 of 25

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@veso58S5W

 

In general the geometry so far looks simplistic and before moving to surfacing or filleting you consider upgrading your modeling techniques. So when you make a loft for example maybe use G1 or G2 as the start and end condition to get smooth transitions.

That can be in the Model or Patch workspace.

 

To really properly "fillet" this sort of geometry you need to probably move to surfacing and away from these solid modeling techniques. Other software might make fillets, but they still look terrible.

 

Also, you are filleting this way too early. Cosmetic fillets are secondary surfaces and should be applied once you are happy with your main shapes. Soon this model don't fillet then loft then fillet then combine then fillet some more.

 

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 9 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

The photo I posted was done in OnShape.
Here is a sample what 360 did with bottom joint, what is much more exposed to lofted area. It did it just perfect, 25mm.Filet-DT.jpg

0 Likes
Message 10 of 25

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

I don't think you understood much of what I said.

Yes, Onshape created a solid modeled fillet in the area Fusion has a problem with. Fusion creates a fillet at the bottom that looks OK to  you.

 

Neither of these fillets look acceptable to most product designers as most product designers - at least in the field of vehicle design and higher end consumer product design -  work with surfacing software. To a degree you can do this as well with Fusion 360.

 

The difference between Onshape and Fusion 360 is the geometric modeling kernel. In Case of Fusion 360 thats a fork of the ACIS kernel and in case of Onshape it is a Parasolid kernel. Both have different strengths. In this case that manifests itself in Fusion 360 not creating a fillet that Onshape creates.

 

Be that as it may, you either create your design in Onshape, or you have to learn a different technique if you want to continue with Fusion 360. In my opinion, that different technique generates the better design, regardless of the software you are working with.


EESignature

Message 11 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Thank you for comments. I realized that loft can make a problem sometimes.

I am not familiar with surfacing, so have to use what I have.
I am happy what I made, as shapes, and those filets are just for prepreg easiness.

0 Likes
Message 12 of 25

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

Is this a design you are willing to share ?

I'd love to see the whole thing and see what can be done with it.


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 13 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate
0 Likes
Message 14 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

PW
140-585-podeli

Thank you for your help. I appreciate any suggestions.

0 Likes
Message 15 of 25

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

I've looked at your model and the modeling techniques you have used really don't utilize the parametric nature of the timeline. So one question would be:  Do you need for this model to be parametric ?

 

Meaning that for example you want to offer a model in different frame sizes, instead of completely re-modeling the entire bike - which is basically what you would have to do now - you change a hand full of dimensions and the CAD model adjusts itself to it.

 

 


EESignature

0 Likes
Message 16 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Eh, Peter,

do you want a Ferrari instead of Hyundai?
Of course I need to change sizes, just I don't know too much in 360, and I have to make this proto as soon as possible. 
Would be nice to have at least main 4 tubes parametric constrained to the angle/length. I have to learn that.

It can be done without filets, without joints. If you can point me where to look on Lars's videos, I would appreciate.

My email is veso@mandaric.com if you need it.

Thank you

0 Likes
Message 17 of 25

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

I don't watch Lars' videos, because there are very few areas in the modeling and assembly area of Fusion 360 that I don't know 😉

Attached is a model that is a few years old where I experimented with how to make a parametric bicycle frame just from tubes. But the methodology os the same. You make your base frame sketch, similar to what you've started in the CL-Side sketch.

Then I make a number of construction Plane along Path at at eh end of these sketch line and sketch my profiles for extrusion, or lofting on these planes.

 

However, I've started to re-design the frame so it's more parametric.

 

Screen Shot 2018-10-17 at 9.27.52 PM.png


EESignature

Message 18 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

Smiley LOL for Lars Video

Thank you, I'll look in to the design you gave me

0 Likes
Message 19 of 25

veso58S5W
Advocate
Advocate

https://a360.co/2J6mQC4

I started creating this.

Don't know if that can be done at all, that Frame Geometry changes by some inputs.

I think it would be too many constrains/demands. Tubes must be positioned differently for different sizes, tube shapes for carbon are demanding and strict (opposite for round and welding) and I don't think they can be generated in a single file, with parametric constrains. Even if it is possible, the work to make it working would be bigger than creating different frame geometry each time. For production usually industry have 6-7 sizes, custom is different.

0 Likes
Message 20 of 25

TrippyLighting
Consultant
Consultant

@veso58S5W wrote:

 

 

Don't know if that can be done at all, that Frame Geometry changes by some inputs.

 


I can assure you that can be done, but also there are limits. The arrangement between the individual tubes and the geometry of the tubes can all be parametrized and changed and these changes will propagate through the model

So far so good.

 

The difficulty will come in when we introduce fillets or more generally speaking transitional surfaces (fillets, blends) between the tubes to create the monocoque frame. Then these transitional surfaces can break and have to be fixed.

 

However, if the changes aren't too drastic then that also might just work out.

I might have some time trough the weekend to investigate this further.


EESignature

0 Likes