ExpressionWith_PI

[MichaelT_123]

 Hi TF360,

Have you … been messing around with UserParameter's interface lately?

Apart from some primarily cosmetic outcomes, your efforts haven't brought the value many have expected for so long… still.

In the colloquial way of saying … if one puts lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig. I know it is a harsh assessment, but the UserParameter module is a very weak subsystem of Fusin360, leading to compromised user experiences.

Here is my recent one …

It is so preposterous that it is difficult to describe it in words; thus, I have prepared a simple file demonstrating the issue I encountered writing in a UserParameter field … loooong formula. Well, as I am a little bit experienced by now, I assembled the formula in Notepad and pasted it … ending up spending hours on this single UI input.

Open UserParameter dialog. There are two entries there: PitchNominal and ExpressionWith_PI.

Everything seems to be OK, … but remove ‘*mm’ in ExpressionWith_PI field.

PI is suddenly substituted, automatically without any warning, with  PitchNominal … creating a still errorless outcome, although with the value I did not expect.

For simple formula, such malicious behaviour can be spotted and corrected. For a lengthy statement like mine (which seemed to be right? in Notepad), such an unexpected substitution is like stabbing in the back with an application of local anaesthesia first.

The file ExpressionWith_PI.f3d is attached.

Sincerely

MichaelT

[TrippyLighting]

@Phil.E bug report!

[g-andresen]

Hi,

At this point I would like to tell you that the meaning of your multicolour texts is not clear to me, especially as I cannot recognise any symbolism.
My reaction is to ignore them despite the many interesting contents.

günther

[Phil.E]

I don't see a bug here. The parameters behave as expected. If someone can please produce a video or step by step method to reveal a problem with this file it would help explain what I cannot see on my own.

[laughingcreek]

@MichaelT_123 wrote:

"… but remove ‘*mm’ in ExpressionWith_PI field."

[Phil.E]

Hi @laughingcreek thanks for posting. I'm not sure what you mean by what you posted. That is the step that I performed and the model behaves as expected. I'm struggling to see what the problem is here without more specific information. Thanks for helping.

[laughingcreek]

[Phil.E]

I don't see the problem. After deleting mm, I have a normal expression.

I did notice that if your text cursor is next to the string "PI" Fusion will show you the list of named parameters with the string PI in them. This is as-design. The thing you need to do is not accept the suggestion if you don't want it by avoiding pressing Enter to accept it.

There is no way to change this behavior without blocking the named-parameter-suggestion-list.

[jeff_strater]

"but remove ‘*mm’ in ExpressionWith_PI field" 

Why?  Why would you need to do this in the first place?  That part of the expression is harmless.  And, the result is still a distance parameter (its units are mm).  Deleting that part of the expression will not turn it into a unitless or angle parameter.

[TrippyLighting]

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@g-andresen wrote:

... the meaning of your multicolour texts is not clear to me ...

---

Here is my interpretation.

@MichaelT_123 is a very intelligent individual who gets as frustrated with software as any of us.

However, instead of using "colorful" language, he uses language full of color 😉

[laughingcreek]

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@Phil.E wrote:

I did notice that if your text cursor is next to the string "PI" Fusion will show you the list of named parameters with the string PI in them. This is as-design. The thing you need to do is not accept the suggestion if you don't want it by avoiding pressing Enter to accept it.

---

ok. thanks, now I understand.

does seem quirky though.  99% of the time I can press the key sequence need for the value and then press [enter], but in this case if I type "PI[enter]" it won't work.  even though PI is itself a legitimate value, I have to be careful to do something else so the preselected variable isn't entered by mistake.

my preference would be for it to work like many other systems, which requires pressing the down arrow to get into the selection list before pressing [enter], instead of fusion trying to select things for me. but that's just me.

follow up question-why doesn't PI appear in the list? starting with a lower case "p", functions appear, but not the constant PI

[laughingcreek]

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@jeff_strater wrote:

"...Why?  Why would you need to do this in the first place?...

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Jeff, it's possible that @MichaelT_123 isn't perfect and occasionally doesn't enter everything in his long expressions exactly right the first time around, and needs to go back and make corrections.  just spit ballin. 

[TrippyLighting]

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@laughingcreek wrote:

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@jeff_strater wrote:

"...Why?  Why would you need to do this in the first place?...

---

Jeff, it's possible that @MichaelT_123 isn't perfect and occasionally doesn't enter everything in his long expressions exactly right the first time around, and needs to go back and make corrections.  just spit ballin. 

---

Or, perhaps, when you define a unit for the Parameter, also placing it in the actual fields for the formulae seems redundant and sometimes makes things less readable.

For people that also write code, readability and lack of clutter is a big deal! 

[Phil.E]

Only user parameter names show up on the list of suggestions. PI is not a user parameter name in this instance. Actually, it's blocked from being used as a user-defined parameter name as well.

[laughingcreek]

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@Phil.E wrote:

Only user parameter names show up on the list of suggestions. PI is not a user parameter name in this instance. Actually, it's blocked from being used as a user-defined parameter name as well.

---

functions also show up on the list

and are also blocked from being user parameters.

so the same question. why have user parameters and functions show up, but not built in constants?

[Phil.E]

@laughingcreek I think you're conflating two things.

Expressions - contain mathematical constants like abs and PI, and are not user parameter names

User parameters - cannot be named the same as a constant, and are not expressions

If I'm hearing you correctly, you want PI to show up on the list of suggested constants that can be conjured while building an expression, via entering something like the P in PI. Is that what you're after here?

[laughingcreek]

lets start over.

-type in an expression, as long as you like, end it with PI.

-the expression turns from RED to BLACK, fusions way of saying the way the expression is written is expectable.

-hit enter (the key you would hit at this point 99% of the time.)

result-fusion replaces PI with a user parameter.

and yes, I do think PI should show in the pick list if your going to show functions also (which you should).

and no, I don't think the search for what goes into the pic list should be case dependant.

[MichaelT_123]

Hi Fusionates & TF360,
It seems that perhaps not only my problem attracted considerable attention. I have spent significant time on it, so I have no longer planned to invest my energy and time in dealing with it. However, after I successfully entered my looong engineering formula into the user parameter field, which behaved like … exuberantly berserk Ozzie's fly in the Outback when it sensed foreign tourists in their squat stop-over … my mood improved. To stop the emerging dilemma of 'replay or not', which has started ratcheting loudly in my vessel and addressing many interlocutors who joined the thread … I decided – I will replay!
The decision has to be made then. How? In short, in lengthy fashion, or somewhere in between.
In short, I excluded, … I am not a vulgar person. In length, it would consume too much of my time and obviously also yours. Hence I will try to find 0.618 balance.
CAD can be very boring and frustrating at times. Therefore, I also use this opportunity, as Rockefeller often promoted … to do something ... for the common goods and help to untangle tightly twisted neuron synopsizes splines, both rational and no-rational of Fellow Fusionates. My effort might not be/read/sound as politically correct, but I am not a purist … thus, so be it … get wild … before AI takes over!
Where to start?
The first point is if Mr Guenther Andresen, for any reason, decides to open the post reneging on his own promise of putting me on ignore, please close your eyes first, blindly copy the content to Notepad and read from there. Alternatively, use the text-to-voice function, possibly enabling the option of changing voice tone by colour. Also, a selection of luxury celebrities' voices (by subscription only) could be an excellent choice for consuming my divagations in style (if one can afford it), supporting the well-being of the local culture at the same time.
I am not a medical doctor. By you, Sir, could have chromophobia or be straight monophyly.
Such illnesses (?) appear apart from extremally rare, strictly medical cases in different societies and countries on regular bases. Black and red are preferable chromo philia colours and mainly depend upon the political winds in east-west azimuth. If you are reading heavily black&white newspapers like NYT or WP (requiring a dictionary in a pocket, glasses and parting with another ~5$ worth of paper), consider switching to The Sun, where no reading skill is necessary. Just a glimpse in the metro over a fellow passenger's shoulder, and one will know (from the predominating colours ) what the weather is (in London) and recharge his/her/it info&humour resources for the rest of the day. Look at Poms, fertilizing their surroundings with excellent jokes … often hitting their convict mates living in Down Under. They are The Humor Champs (in black) … although Ozzies are not far behind … returning the favours.
… and by the way … putting someone on ignore is, in my opinion, a very irrational stance … at least. It leads to isolation and a lack of empathy. Multiplying such posture on a massive scale give rise to social avalanches, …. burning books, restriction of native languages … or even worse. I personally, until I am sane (subjectively), never put such restrictions on my communication links … no matter what is transmitted on the line … I will listen/take it ALL with no grudge.
By the way … Keep Doing a Good Job on The Forum (in black).

Now, let's address Mr Jeff Strater…
Cordially, I will categorize your response as a joke. Somewhere on the dark side, but it is OK.
As a token of appreciation, I will reciprocate by constructing one, perhaps on the opposite fringe of the spectrum, putting the issue in a different context and focusing the matter on the joke's pun … as well as I can. So let's start…
"
After busy office time and even more exhausted, buzzy happy hours, Jeff returns home on PIccadilly Street. He goes straight to the bathroom, takes a toothbrush, cleans his teeth, enters the bedroom, flicks off the lights, lies in a bed, and falls asleep, … after doing things most mates do to relieve anxieties of the day. At pre-dawn, he feels a tap on his shoulder, opens his eyes and gazes … at his neighbour John from tens of townhouses down the row. John, a little dizzy after a long winding walk back from a pub, asks:
Jeffee, what are you doing in my bed with my partner … Alex?
Jeffee looks to his right (he is righthanded) and answers with a smirk smile on his face:
Johnee, … I know. I made a mistake.. but I just only used the wrong toothbrush. I assure you … there will be no consequences!
"
It is just like clandestinely substituting PI constant in a loooong engineering equation, … without MichaelTee's knowledge.

Oppps, I think I am at 0.6 distance now …
So quickly, thank you ALL who, in silence and not so muted, have supported the case. You have done an exemplary job … for the common good (in black)!

… and as last bit 0.018….
When dealing with looong parametric equations, assemble them in a neutral ergonomic editor, paste them into the F360 UserParmeters dialogue field, copy it back (Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C) and paste it under the source text in the editor. Compare. In this way, you might avoid a situation like …
… catching exuberantly berserk Ozzie's fly in the Outback when it sensed foreign tourists in their squat stop-over …

Good luck!

Sincerely (in dark black)
MichaelT

PS.
Never say never,… but after spending considerable time on the problem … I am unlikely to add another entity to the thread's Timeline. Time IS NOT INFINITE … so it should be used stingily. I presented the relevant post on this subject (time/Timeline/Entities/Events) some time ago, but it seems it has been deleted, or I just can not find it.

[Phil.E]

Thanks for clarifying.