Cloud Render Questions

[O.Tan]

Hi,

Recently I've started using Cloud Render for some rendering work and I do have some questions regarding it:

1. What's the difference between Native and Advanced Exposure?

2. What's re-render for and why does a re-render result is completely different even if the render setting is the same?

3. Why is the cloud render result different from native render? Is it meant to be that way?

4. Cloud Render seems to have lots of noise in the shadows, any way to "fix" it?

5. From experience, it seems pending to render (can take up to 20-30 mins) will take longer then the actual rendering time (around 10 mins)?

Samples:

Native Render

 

Cloud Render

Initial Cloud Render

Re-Rendered Cloud Render

[O.Tan]

NOTE: With the exception of Native Render, all the cloud render uses Exposure: Advanced.

Native render uses Ray-Tracing: Advanced

[anavaidya]

Hi, 

Regarding,

1. What's the difference between Native and Advanced Exposure?
Native exposure uses the exposure settings set in your Fusion file and Advanced is suppossed to use auto-exposure settings. But we always use Native settings from the file. Thanks for brining this up. We will remove this option from Render settings.

2. What's re-render for and why does a re-render result is completely different even if the render setting is the same?
Re-render is meant to be used if you want to re-render the same image in a bigger size. It should not change the exposure of your image. We are curious to know how your image changed. Can you tell us if you re-rendered from Fusion or from My Renderings?

3. Why is the cloud render result different from native render? Is it meant to be that way?
Cloud render should match native rendering in Fusion. I agree that some differences exist, but we are striving to make this as close as possible.

4. Cloud Render seems to have lots of noise in the shadows, any way to "fix" it?
If you render in "final" quality, the noise will go away.

5. From experience, it seems pending to render (can take up to 20-30 mins) will take longer then the actual rendering time (around 10 mins)?
Pending to render usually happens when the file is being translated (to a format that can be rendered) or when the job is in queue. This does not usually take a long time but it depends on various factors such Subscription type (Student or paid). I will look into the renderings that you submitted to see if they have taken an usually long time to render.

Thanks for posting these questions and bringing some of these issues to our attention. 

[O.Tan]

Thanks for the answers.

1. Native exposure uses the exposure settings set in your Fusion file and Advanced is suppossed to use auto-exposure settings. But we always use Native settings from the file. Thanks for brining this up. We will remove this option from Render settings.

Aah, so that's what Advanced Exposure does, though I feel just a re-name of it would do fine instead of removing it as from my native render, I noticed that some region is over exposed, so auto-exposure in some situation would do fine (quick render). So instead of having it write, exposure : advanced, perhaps, exposure : auto is better?

So for cloud render, the ray-tracing is the same as native: advanced ray tracing?

2. Re-render is meant to be used if you want to re-render the same image in a bigger size. It should not change the exposure of your image. We are curious to know how your image changed. Can you tell us if you re-rendered from Fusion or from My Renderings?

It's re-rendered from Fusion, I didn't change anything, just clicked re-render, ensure the render settings is the same as previous and render it. 

3. If you render in "final" quality, the noise will go away.

That doesn't seem to be the case though, in particular with the dark regions of the photo (I wonder if Auto Exposure has something to do with it), I'll post a more detailed comparison between native and cloud render quality tomorrow as I'll be away for the rest of the day later.

4. Pending to render usually happens when the file is being translated (to a format that can be rendered) or when the job is in queue. This does not usually take a long time but it depends on various factors such Subscription type (Student or paid). I will look into the renderings that you submitted to see if they have taken an usually long time to render.

The render is done via a different paid colleague account so don't think you'll be able to find records of it via my account, would naming the rendered file name (the one given when I chose to download it from Fusion360) suffice?

[l_wcrenshaw]

Timely questions.  I just started to play with cloud rendering last week, and I found that my results were inconsistent with native rendering results.  1.) The exposure was often quite different.  2.)  The model orientation changed.  3)  I could see the "render room" (umbrellas, lights, etc...) in the final render.  Granted, I've never used it before, but it was strange.  I wish I could share the renders, but I'm under NDA.

[anavaidya]

Hi,

Regarding re-render and the noise issue, can you share your Fusion file with us? That will help us in debugging.

Regarding #4, if you want us to investigate further, can you give me your colleague's userID or email and the name of the project that took a long time to render? We can then look into the renderings and find out what is going on.

Thanks,

[O.Tan]

Sorry for the very late reply, but I can't share that particular Fusion file as it's an asset but I can share with you my Fusion 360 Performance Test project which results in the same thing as well, no difference between Exposure: Advance and Exposure: Native. Just pass my your email address and I invite you to the project.

Also, it seems the Cloud Rendering time has been fixed as the render is now back to its usual speedy self.

Notice both still has noise in the shadow areas when both is rendered with Final Quality

And here's a close up sample for the earlier 2 photos, showing the difference in result between Fusion build in render and Fusion cloud render in terms or noise in shadows

Fusion Build-In Render

Fusion Cloud Render

[anavaidya]

Hi,

Regarding the first issue, we are aware that there is no difference between Advanced and Native exposure currently. I will not need your Fusion file.

Regarding the second set of images, there is definitely a difference in the shadows and this was also reported by another user. The developers are working towards a fix and we will be releasing it soon.

Thanks for taking the time to bring this up. I'll keep you updated once we release the fix.

[l_wcrenshaw]

Bringing this back to life as I've been using the cloud render this morning.  So, I have two issues.  

1.)  I tried to do a high res 36 frame render.  The single frame render looked good.  The multi-frame, 36 cloud credit render, shifted the model up and cut the model off, so it's a worthless render.

2.)  Same thing happened with a similar render at different model location.  The single frame render looked fine.  The multi-frame render decided to take some wonky turn-table path.

Is there any way to get a preview of the results before I burn through cloud credits on unusable renders?  Thx.

[anavaidya]

Hi,

We have a known problem with the multi-frame turntable rendering. If the model is not centered at the origin, we don't calculate the pivot for rotation accurately. That results in the model being off-screen in the final render. We are working towards resolving this. I'll keep you updated once we have a fix.

Regarding your cloud credits, I'll contact you via email.

Thanks,

[william7]

I'm also having porblames, regarding exposure, with cloud rendering.

Here's a render I preformed locally on my computer. Exposure is as I set it and materials look as I assigned. No surpirses.

Here's the render from the cloud with the same settings. Exposure is way too low, to the point where the clasp in the bottom right disapears.

I've tried re-rendering several times with identical and different settings, but no luck. Any ideas?

[anavaidya]

Hi @william7,

Can you share your Fusion file with me? aradhana.vaidya at autodesk.com. It'll help us to see what is going on.

Thanks,

[william7]

Done.

[anavaidya]

Thanks for sharing your file, @william7. It looks like the issue is not related to exposure but may be related to the Scene settings (environment). We are looking into it. I'll let you know when we find out more. 

[anavaidya]

Hi @william7,

As I said before, it is not a exposure issue. In your model, the ground plane (Scene settings -> Environment) has moved above the object and it is casting a shadow and everything looks dark. To fix it,

- In Render workspace, click on Scene settings (Lamp). 

- Click on Position 

- The rotation dialog opens, click Reset. 

This will fix the environment and Cloud rendering will look correct.

Let me know, if this fixes things for you.

Thanks,

[william7]

Hi @anavaidya,

Thank you so much for your help. That fixed that problem, but a new one has presented itself. As seen in the picture below, shadows aren't rendering properly. Any ideas as to what could be causing this?

Thanks again for your help!

Michael

[william7]

Does anyone have any insight into what's causing my problem? I tried re-rendering (cloud) a week later, from a differetn OS (mac), ans still have the same problems with the shadows.

 

[anavaidya]

Hi @william7,

Sorry for the delayed response. In your watch model, there is a bright white part in the front which uses an emmisive material, LED - SMD 5630 - 50lm (White). Reduce the illuminance by a factor of 10, to about 20,000. That will fix the noisy shadows. Image attached here.

The engineers are working on a new rendering kernel, which will fix these issues in lighting. But until the, use the above value and your rendering will look good. I hope this helps.