building a box for my vacuum cleaner. (Down another rabbit hole)

[mark33.in.oz]

Sorry folks, this is a real big trip up for me.

This is a bit of a long post.

Only to explain the story - though somewhat academic at this point in time.

But I feel I need to explain how I got here and why to (maybe) help in the bigger picture.

INTRODUCTION:

I have been using Fusion 360 for a few years now but it is only on a limited use and it was done more for 3D printing than where I am now.

Not to detract from what the program can do and I accept its limits.

But recent events have presented me with a whole new rabbit hole down which I am traveling now.

So for the record:

I only "designed" this to get an idea of what I wanted to do and look at how it was going to be built.

Then the situation presented itself that completely changes the course.

I bought a new vacuum cleaner (portable) and want to build it a "house".

I sat down and "built" models on the parts and then the "house" into which it would be put.
This way I could look at item interaction (or how it would look when built) and make sure things were ok.

See the model.

Knowing my luck all the pieces will be everywhere and not where I want.   Haven't worked that problem out either.

Now a "walk through" of the idea:

It is a top/sides and bottom of a box with TWO backs.   1 is the REAL back and the other (in this case) is called the "insert".

Why?

Well, this was done for my benefit for the positioning of the "charger".

At the start I wasn't sure how that was going to attach to the rear wall.   Bolts, nails or.....????

Ends up being two dowels.   There will be washers to fill in a bit of space to fill in the small gap to make it all "level" then a piece of wood (thin) put between the two dowels.

And there is a hole for the power cable to pass through.

That hole also needs to be in the back plane but the two holes for the dowel don't.

So the power cable hole needs to be lined up on both pieces.

This is easy but then lining up the "charger" with the holes is difficult so I hide the "housing" and line up the holes with the "charger" and the holes in the "insert".

Then un-hide the "housing" and move it into position and work from there.

(Sorry, I hope you are still reading this as I still haven't got to the problem yet.)

So with all pieces in place I could see what I needed to build the "house".

This was done by making a drawing of the "house" and showing all / most of the dimensions.

That was kind of painful on my version as I couldn't do all I wanted.

Not sure that is because of the limits of the version or my knowledge.   But anyway.

ALTERNATIVE IDEA:

I showed this to someone for a second opinion and......

Then someone said it could be laser cut easily.

All you need is to export the ...  file in the required format.
(Which ok:  This version doesn't allow)

But that isn't the problem.

I have access to a full version (limited use of for time) and went there with the idea of making/exporting this file.

I "hide" all the non-house parts and export to the file.

Alas ALL the pieces/parts are exported.

What kind of throws the proverbial spanner in the works for me.

QUESTION:

Main one:

What do I need to do?

Delete the non-required parts and then export?

Another while here:

So, the original idea is I make a "model" of all the things and make sure they can "play with each other nicely" in the house I want to make.

But any time I go in and edit a piece/part:  all/most other parts get moved elsewhere/back to their start positions.

Ok, I kind of get that.

But isn't FUSION supposed to be ...... parametric?

And as I am making ... components (separate parts) rather than as I originally did - in one big homogeneous mess - shouldn't they remember where I put them?

I know this is a big ask and it will be difficult to help me.

I am not even sure I am going to be able to understand what will be said/told to me via the group as "SIMPLEX" "HALF DUPLEX"  (two way communication with long delay between who's talking)  communications are not easily processed by me.

I'll stop here as I think I have (probably) gone on long enough now and already lost people.

Going on more will only lose more.

Thanks in advance.

[mark33.in.oz]

I don't know how far down the rabbit hole I am.

I would like to learn the better way than I know now.....    But it this the right time?

As I said, my shoulders are "killing me" from sitting here for.....   4 hours.   There about.

It may be better if I can find someone who can do it with me in "real time".

As in:  Not delay between hearing and asking.

Nothing against you.   More the system between us.

In this mode data is lost at about 60+ %.   One to one it is down to 10-20% loss.   So it is a LOT better that way.

That's just how I take things in.

Tomorrow I may have a better look at the "mistakes" I am doing.

I can kind of see some great "tricks" with the finger joint video.   But as I said, I did try to apply it and something is wrong with what I have and it is frustrating me something shocking.

Also:  Until only the last couple of years I have ABS(ZERO) idea of design.   So the whole thing is still very conceptual to me.

I honestly don't know how I have got where I am.

Other people in the group - at the library where I go to use the FULL version - turn to me for help on things.

Somehow I seem to answer them and get what they want done.   This also infuriates me as I seem to be able to help other people with their problems and am not able to solve my own problems.

Here it is 21:50.   I've been up since about 06:30.    I think I am not going to do myself any favours trying to learn anything more today.

I also have to think if it is worth "cutting my losses" with what I have done and starting again.

Can I save some of the other components and bring them into the new one?

Remember:  I am on the LIMITED version and have ..... 7, 8? jobs already existing that are "in the pipe line".

Alas some things take a long time to complete.

And one of the jobs has 3 external - other - jobs as sub-jobs.   That is a bit annoying.   But it is what it is.

[mark33.in.oz]

Ok, I'm confused.

I just typed out a long reply and posted it.

Not seeing it.

😞   Crying.

Oh!

"New page"....

Sorry.

[mark33.in.oz]

(Rambling now but...)

I found your youtube channel.

Subscribed.

The one I used just before was "What make art".

Just to get my head around how to make finger joints.

But as appreciation I'll look at your videos too.

Just getting the time and mind set to take it in.

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@mark33.in.oz wrote:

I just typed out a long reply and posted it.

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Long textual responses not needed with my BORN Technique - only binary yes/no responses needed.

If response is NO - I (and you) can move on to other things.

If response is YES - I can demonstrate Step 1.

After Step 1 would come Step 2 and so forth till completion.  Can take hours, days, weeks or longer depending on schedules and engagement in the ongoing discussion.

[mark33.in.oz]

"Morning folks".

Kinda went back to the start.

All things looking good.

HOUSEING is NOT DONE.

But INSERT is.

Check finger joints and how it is looking.

For the sake of "try before I buy" (no not buying fusion) for the sketches to export for the laser printer I shall see how that works with what I have in the mean time.

Just to get the feel for it.

[mark33.in.oz]

Oh, just FYI - but you (all) probably know anyway:

"Fusion" is doing maintenance and so I am not really wanting to do any work as it can't be saved.

[TheCADWhisperer]

Wayyy too much work?

But in any case - 

can Save as DXF at any time.

I don't understand why you are using all of those finger joints in the Insert anyhow - in my experience only the sides use finger joints.  I guess maybe if all you have access to is laser cutter and no access to router.

Actually, in my previous image it would probably be better to Project the Face into a new sketch and Save as DXF...

Close up of a corner - no extraneous construction lines, no white dots, no blue unconstrained lines.

[mark33.in.oz]

(Can't sleep.   Got up 03:30-ish local time.  Now 04:32.)

Yeah, all those constrains annoy me too.

But they seem to happen.   Probably because I am doing it a "wrong" way.

I seem to be making slow progress.

The first video on finger joints has me stumped on a couple of things.

I'm going to watch it again.

There is a "neat trick" with this "cut joint" which is still not clear how to do it.

And something about the new sketch and "projecting other stuff onto it".

(Sorry)

Ok, the "insert".

Originally it was going to be just that:  an insert.

There would be a "back" to the "housing" but because of things developing, the back became unneeded and the "insert" became the back part.

That means the fingers need to go out from the original size.

(May edit more stuff to this post soon)

About to try a "trick" again which wasn't working yesterday.

Ok, a "mish-mash" of how things are/were done.

But to check.

I threw away "housing" and worked on "insert".

Yes, some of it is still bad.   But if you look at the sketches you may see that I have "grown" in how I do things.

I did the "back" (the "holders" are fairly simple)

From there I did the "top".

Applied the PROJECT trick to make the top.

Added some fingers down one side.   Not the best, but.....

Mirrored them to the other side.   Then extruded.

Looks good.

Then mirrored the BODY to the bottom.

From there I did the side with the PROJECT trick.

Extruded.   Looking good.

Mirrored the body.

WOW!   That's good.

Now, to make the .DXF files.

I want to have all the pieces on one sketch.

"All the pieces".

How do I "reflect" (mirror/echo?) the body shapes to there?

That way I export ONE DXF file with all the pieces.

[TheCADWhisperer]

Lots of blue lines.

Lots of white dots.

Lots of extra work.

@mark33.in.oz 

Do you want to learn how to do this correctly?  Step-by-step?

BTW - what is the web link to the finger joint video you keep referring to but have not cited?

[davebYYPCU]

I want to have all the pieces on one sketch.

Not available from Fusion the way it works now.  

Download DXFer, from Github.  It’s an Addin.

When you get that running, you only have to click on the face of each part, to put them in one sketch.  Use the Layers setting, each part will be separated onto dxf layer for nesting.

Might help.....

[etfrench]

Or just follow the instructions in post #16...

[mark33.in.oz]

Sorry.

Just now my mind is a bit scattered.

The youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrcqauNvt0M

The extra blue lines/white dots and "extra work".

That is on the "back" part/piece.

Yes?

What about the "top/bottom" and "left/right" sides?

In comparison to how they were a few version back.

Yes I do want to learn.

But last night was the end for me and this morning - at 04:30 - I decided to put in some work to see if I had become better than I was.

[mark33.in.oz]

I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks.

Shall report back when I've got it.

[mark33.in.oz]

I shall go back and re-read that post.

Polyphasic sleep is not fun.

[mark33.in.oz]

(Me again.)   🙂

Yes, TheCADWhisperer is also helping me.

I'm not trying to play the two of you against each other.

Would you mind elaborating on what you meant in the post #16 of this thread:

> Here's an example where I just added the cutout for a finger joint in the original sketch. When you edit the Extrude feature for that body, you can click on the finger joint profile to remove it from the Profiles.

The "back" is still a dog's breakfast.

But the top and sides are a lot (LOT?) better.

I seem to not be understanding what you mean.

Then there is the next part:

>  Copy the Insert component, then use planar joints to arrange all of the subcomponents. Once arranged, project each face (Make sure "Project Link" is checked) to a sketch to send as a dxf to the laser guy. This process will allow you to make changes to the model and have the changes automatically propagate to the dxf sketch.

I'll brake it down a bit more that I originally did:

Copy - with you.

"insert component" - lost me.

I'm not sure if that is:   "Insert" and "component" as two things or as I just put it.

So I'm stuck there.

When I look at the component I can't see a way of doing anything other than copying it.

And then when I paste it (yes, jumping ahead a bit) the Make sure the "Project Link" is checked falls apart also.

Using the PLANAR joints is also confusing, but I am sure that is easy compared to the other bit.

But time will tell.

So now I have gone that extra and made all the parts for the "house" (Now actually in the "insert" part) into components...

I copy them to the "all pieces" part of my project and put them there?

I'll have a look but as I said:  I seem to be missing something.

Dave have suggested going to github and getting something - which I was about to do - but saw the reference back to this post.

So I'm reading it again and decided to dig a bit into what you mean.

Thanks in advance.

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@mark33.in.oz wrote:

Yes, TheCADWhisperer is also helping me.

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@mark33.in.oz 

Start a new file.

Create the User Parameters shown below...

Because we will use a master multi-body technique there is no need to create Components at this time.

Start a New Sketch and sketch the rectangle as shown below...

Change the Linetype to Construction and Offset the boundary towards the inside as shown below...

Edit: Actually - don't change to Construction but do be sure to use Offset command (do not use Rectangle command).

What do you note about the color of the Offset lines after clicking OK?

Toggle back to normal linetype...

Sketch a 2-point rectangle to the right as shown...

And sketch a rectangle at the top as shown.  Dimension with the appropriate named Parameters.

Add Midpoint constraints between the lines as appropriate (shown below)...

In the image the top finger tab constrained and about to add the last Midpoint constraint to the side tab rectangle.

Finish sketch and save the file.

Attach the new file here for next set of simplified steps (as compared to the reference video where too much work was done.

Your sketch should look like this - nothing complicated.

[etfrench]

It would be best to start from the beginning as @TheCADWhisperer will walk  you through the entire process.

[mark33.in.oz]

Thank you very much.

In the process of doing that now.

Alas......  "Huston we have a problem".

>  Edit: Actually - don't change to Construction but do be sure to use Offset command (do not use Rectangle command).

I am getting what you say, but there is discontinuity - as I see things.

DO NOT USE CONSTRUCTION LINE.  To me that means make the line SOLID.

Here and in subsequent pictures the line is dashed.

So it is the OPPOSITE of what you said.

Train derailed at this point.

(All this scrolling is making me dizzy)

When you make the two rectangles, you only specify one dimension.   Ok, I'll leave that alone for now.  Not a problem.

But they show as "thicker" than the offset.  Again:  not a problem.  That is in the FIRST picture.

When you center them:  One of them has become a lot thinner than it was in the previous picture.

I'm not going to paste them because the quoting system here is confusing to me and not helping in the bigger picture of me learning.   It is only making me dizzy.

So more carriages are now derailed.

> ATTACH THE NEW FILE HERE.....

And now the entire train is off the tracks.

New file?

ATTACH?

Sorry, but I can't now move.

Waiting help.

P.S.

For the sake of reducing the damage, I am looking beyond the point of failure.

The two rectangles have had undeclared work done on them as now both of them are inside the two big rectangles.

Mine as I see them.

 

Re-reading the line:

Attach the new file here.

Missing required parameter.

To....?  What?

[mark33.in.oz]

Thanks.

I sort of feel guilty as you were the first to reply/help.

[TheCADWhisperer]

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@mark33.in.oz wrote:

>  Edit: Actually - don't change to Construction but do be sure to use Offset command (do not use Rectangle command).

DO NOT USE CONSTRUCTION LINE.  To me that means make the line SOLID.

Here and in subsequent pictures the line is dashed.

So it is the OPPOSITE of what you said.

> ATTACH THE NEW FILE HERE.....

And now the entire train is off the tracks.

New file?

ATTACH?

Sorry, but I can't now move.

Attach the new file here.

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I Edited one line after posting - it should not have been confusing. I was not going to go through and replace images for one simple edit.

Attaching a file here means attaching a file here - again, not confusing concept.