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[Open] Would you like to use your keyboard to navigate through dialogs? Here is your chance to provide feedback.

24 REPLIES 24
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Message 1 of 25
yirang.choe
2329 Views, 24 Replies

[Open] Would you like to use your keyboard to navigate through dialogs? Here is your chance to provide feedback.

Hi All,

The Fusion team wants your feedback as we shape the future of the keyboard experience in Fusion. Please help us by sharing your experience and ideas.

If you are interested, please take the quick survey by clicking HERE.

We look forward to your feedback and ideas!

Labels (1)
24 REPLIES 24
Message 2 of 25
OceanHydroAU
in reply to: yirang.choe

Keyboard is always faster than mouse when you know what you are doing.

 

Please try to respect the usual O/S meaning of key functions:

Tab - jump to the next control

Shift-Tab - jump back to the previous control

 

Ctrl-Tab - cycle to the next "inner" dialogue (e.g. go to the next tab in tabbed controls)

Shift-Ctrl-Tab (as above, backwards)

Both the above cycle back to the start or end when they reach the end or start.

 

Alt-Tab - Cycle to the next "outer" dialogue or window (e.g. to the next workspace, if 2 are open)

Shift-Alt-Tab (as above, backwards)

 

Space-bar is the universal way to toggle selected checkboxes or other on/off controls.

 

The above key combinations usually work that same way in most applications on both Mac and Windows.

 

In addition, it is customary* to include "shortcuts" - single-letter key combinations that can be used with ALT- to jump directly to (or immediately toggle or submit) a nominated control, AND for the required shortcut for that control to appear with an underline below the shortcut letter (if not always, then it should show up when the ALT key is pressed alone).

 

E.g. 

 

Standard DialogStandard DialogExample with ALT pressedExample with ALT pressed

 

The first is the normal dialog. The second is what shows up when the ALT key is pressed and held down: note how every heading has an underline on the next unused possible letter for the control).

 

In the above example, pressing ALT-S should immediately toggle the Sketch Grid, pressing ALT-L should activate the first of the Linetype control options (right-arrow to change them, space to toggle), and pressing ALT-F should "press that button" and immediately FINISH SKETCH

 

* Also be aware that all the above are absolutely essential for disabled people and anyone/anything else needing assistive technologies or who rely on those shortcuts to rapidly get their work done.

 

Everything I have described above is pure "intuition" - because that's how almost everything else already works, nobody needs to learn anything new to use all that, and, everything they do learn in here will automatically work in other applications they use as well - win/win !!

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Message 3 of 25
yirang.choe
in reply to: OceanHydroAU

Hi Chris, thanks so much for sharing your feedback! I also agree that following the standardized keyboard shortcuts would increase the learnability of this new interaction. Using the Alt key + Single-letter key idea is also a good suggestion. I will make sure this is recognized as a needed feature.

Message 4 of 25
Anonymous
in reply to: yirang.choe

Hello all...

I basically FULLY agree with Chris.

Apart from keyboard shortcuts that are engaged with the ALT key (also highlighting those letters in dialogs etc.) I do like the hints in menus that you're already using:

ThiloSchuetz_0-1625500527786.png


Only... these are FAR TOO FEW !

 

Working quickly within your workspace is soooo important. Simply pressing one key (e.g. L for line or D for dimension) is extremely fast and convenient. - Please do add LOTS more, not only in dialogs, modals etc.

 

Cheers!
Thilo

 

Message 5 of 25
yirang.choe
in reply to: Anonymous

@Anonymous I completely agree with you. Thank you for your comments!

Message 6 of 25
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

My workaround for this is using "s" for search and typing in the command. Obviously, this requires some working knowledge of Fusion, but it can be fairly speedy once you get the hang of it. 

Message 7 of 25
OceanHydroAU
in reply to: yirang.choe

@Anonymous - that reminds me - the current way that "autocomplete" works is AWESOME - the way it suggests my parameters by matching any part of the parameter name is pure genius - I use that all the time.

Message 8 of 25
Eide.N
in reply to: yirang.choe

This is slightly off-topic, but I would like to use the keyboard (maybe the "home" key) for the "home" view!

Message 9 of 25
yirang.choe
in reply to: Eide.N

Thanks for the comment! Regarding the keyboard shortcuts for View Cube—this is definitely something that is on our radar. However, we don’t have firm plans or timelines yet.

Message 10 of 25
OceanHydroAU
in reply to: Eide.N

@Eide.N - Does the F6 key do what you want already?  I use it all the time - the #1 keyboard button I press! 🙂

Message 11 of 25
Eide.N
in reply to: yirang.choe

@OceanHydroAU  Good suggestion! But it looks like F6 does a "fit" (i.e. "zoom all") and not a "home". 

Message 12 of 25
gtuomi
in reply to: yirang.choe

I use parameters extensively. Is there any way to get a shortcut for new User Parameter. Sometimes I'll have 20 or more parameters and have to scroll up the hit the "+". 

 

Also, it would be nice to be able to sort the parameters alphabetically by name.

Message 13 of 25
yirang.choe
in reply to: yirang.choe

Thanks for the suggestion @gtuomi!

Message 14 of 25
bryan_moosman
in reply to: yirang.choe

How about just a middle-click to accept / replicate an 'enter' command?  I think NX does this, although I haven't tried recently.

 

It's so nice to just right-click to accept a green arrow, or hit enter if I'm already on the keyboard.  Would speed up work a decent amount.

Message 15 of 25
Intuos5
in reply to: yirang.choe

Most comments here, and the survey itself, heavily focus on navigating the menus (TAB, Shift Tab or arrow keys). However, modal hotkeys seem to be unknown to most, as it is a relatively new way to model with.

 

Modal hotkeys

The idea here is that there exists a new context for keyboard shortcuts within an active command. In other words, you can press 'Q' to fillet and then press 'Q' to enable picking  tool. You could then hit 'W' to change the width of the fillet, then hit 'T' to change go to the Fillet type setting, etc. After activating a modal hotkey, it activates the input field from the 3d view, so you can type 1000mm, hit 'D' and go to another field. Optionally, changing modes would confirm input so "w1000d500" would be all that's required for input.*

 

Example:

 

Alternative approach

Some Blender plugins use a HUD for the settings, but for Fusion there will be the menu on the right hand side. It does show a more elaborate way of hotkeying, the video below shows the way the options are navigated. Since you have direct access to the specifics you want to change it is quicker and requires less input (so less muscle strain) than hitting Tab a number of times in succession, only to accidentally overshoot in some cases.

 

Note that mousewheel and Ctrl inputs could be replaced with single letter + mouse movement or single letter + numeric value (both typed from the canvas) in addition to tabbing through the menu when the mouse hovers over it and picks the appropriate input). So no existing functionality lost, only added.

 

Minimal input, maximal ergonomics

Ideally, Fusion 360 would adopt this Modal Hotkey approach, it is different from any software I used (Rhino, Alias, Revit, Autocad, 3ds Max, Adobe CC suite, Affinity Suite) but I felt at home immediately. Thing is, this approach is the least heavy on user input. Minimal effort across keyboard AND mouse. You don't need to keep mouse buttons or keys pressed down at all. Plus, since it is a new context, it does not consume hotkeys/ you can use all hotkeys available again, therefore, any operation requires one key — nothing more, no modifiers, etc. — so it is blazingly fast and great for muscle memory and great to combat muscle strain over long working days.

 

Try it

So I can recommend the team that researches how to tackle navigation, to download Blender (free and open source) and bevel the default cube, you'll notice the difference and see how it works. It is difficult to convey this with words and videos, you will just have to try to feel the difference.

 

Also, in Blender, any of the keyboard shortcuts and modal hotkeys can be user configured, so if I think 'R' for Radius is more easy to remember than 'W' for Width, then I can go ahead and change this. Very convenient stuff.

 

Regarding alt key navigation

The modal hotkeys are basically Alt + [key] navigation, but then without the alt key. So much easier to reach with only one key required. So I think it should satisfy those who wish to use Alt + [key] navigation.

Moreover, in Blender, alt is used to cancel things out, so translating this to Fusion, you would be able to reset a setting to its default. By pressing Alt+'W', the fillet's radius would be reset to the default state (last used), alternatively, hovering over a value and pressing 'C' for Clear or Backspace, should work the same way. It would be like hitting the X symbol as well.

Intuos5_0-1642268331792.png

 

Tab/ arrow navigation

The modal hotkeys are not supposed to take away functionality, you should still be able to go to the next input with tab, since typing 3000 > tab > 200 > tab > 1300 for creating a box is something most people would be familiar with. Heck it already works this way.

Intuos5_1-1642268382882.png

The same goes for arrow key navigation, maybe to change to the next fillet type with the fillet type input active, but modal hotkeys will streamline all of this. The more options available the more likely people will feel at home, simple ones for the hobbyist and elaborate ones for the power user.

 

*Simplified version, since you can have multiple types of fillets in Fusion as opposed to Blender's dialog box. This is easily solved though.

 

For questions/ more information, feel free to ask/ send me a PM, always happy to help!

 

E: To clarify, some default Blender tools are not as optimal as some of the available plugins, but you can, through plugins/ customising hotkeys achieve a workflow wherein mouse button and keyboard key holds/ click and drag can be almost mitigated (except for selections perhaps). And wherein most of the shortcuts only use single button activation. If possible, I think the team should try to minimise button holding and click + drag behaviour, that would help a lot of people with their health > reducing input strain is key here.

Message 16 of 25
Anonymous
in reply to: Intuos5

Dear all,

I like the suggestion of Intuos5. Probably because Blender obviously does a
really nice job in clearly displaying the available shortcuts next to the
mouse all the time:





For the older ones (like me) around here. This would almost be like the
>original< menus and keyboard shortcuts Microsoft used before they came up
with their (in my opinion still questionable) ribbons, only that with
Blender you have both settings and menu/shortcuts right next to your mouse.

To me, this looks very good and I'd have no problem memorizing the most
important shortcuts quickly.

I would definitely second such approach.

Greetings to all!
Thilo
Message 17 of 25

Please keep Spacemouse users in mind. Having a key or key combination that would allow navigation through fields of a function's toolbar would be an improvement. It could then be assigned to a spacemouse's programmable button.

Message 18 of 25
OceanHydroAU
in reply to: gtuomi

@gtuomi do you know about the "=" trick?

 

Any time you're creating anything, instead of (e.g.) just typing "20" for something (like a length, or a repeat count, or degrees, or whatever) you can type ParamaterName=20 right into the dimensions box, and it creates the named parameter for you immediately.

 

It's also possible, with some clever component design, to create paramaters in one place that drive other components in other places.  For example - I designed one parametric "heat sink", then created an assembly with a dozen different sized and shaped heatsinks, where each of those was the same original parametric component 🙂

Message 19 of 25
gtuomi
in reply to: OceanHydroAU

Awesome! I did not know that. Although it appears to just rename the automatically generated model parameter (e.g. "d3") which are located in the 'Model Parameters' drop down. Though the initial function is not labeled with an "fx:", all subsequent referrals to this parameter name have this function identifier. 

 

The problem is that because it is saved in the 'Model Parameters' drop down. Considering that every new component and/or operation creates a new subset for the model parameters to hide, to change the parameter value in the future, one has to sift through potentially hundreds of parameters hidden in sub-directories to find it. 

 

Although when it is initially saved, the parameter is starred as a favorite, if by chance the parameter is accidentally or intentionally unchecked, the parameter is lost in the sea of drop downs. It would be nice if one could simply put an asterisk in front of the ParameterName=20 to save it as a user defined parameter instead. 

 

As I stated in my original post, a sort function would be very helpful. The last model I made had 67 user parameters and sorting (or searching) these parameters would be ideal.

Message 20 of 25
GRSnyder
in reply to: yirang.choe

I'd just like to echo @nicolas.beaudoin_MI's point about SpaceMouses: this is an incredibly important input method for CAD. Good support for SpaceMouses is just as important as good keyboard support. Fortunately, the two generally go hand in hand, at least as far as buttons on SpaceMouses go.

 

A longstanding pain point for me is that I'd like to be able to define a Sketch -> Look At button on my SpaceMouse. NOT the Look At from the bottom of the main window, which requires a target pick; the Look At from the Sketch palette that returns you to the current sketch plane while you are sketching. (But really, why shouldn't ALL of the items on that palette have a keyboard shortcut, or at least the possibility to assign a shortcut?)

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