Questions on Forma to Revit workflow

[soki_s]

Hi all,

I am new to Forma and has been testing the possibility to benefit from this tool into the Revit workflow.
We are using Forma with Revit 2022.
There are a few questions I wonder if anyone can help:

1. For the Revit output we would like to have a consistency of either scheduling mass floor area or actual floor area.
   Using the Revit plug-in, "buildings" translate into actual floors / walls / roof / rooms which are tremendously useful. "3D sketches" in Forma, however, only translate into mass floor. Is there a way to turn a "3D sketch" into "building" in Forma ?
   
   
2. If #1 is not possible, I imagine we can use "mass" instead of "building" in Forma to get the consistency. However, the assigned function / typologies in Forma doesn't translate into Revit. Am I doing it right or I have missed certain steps to get the functions translated into the properties of the Revit mass floor ?
   
   
3. In Forma, is there a way to name a building / mass, so when it translate into Revit it comes with the building numbering that align with what the project needed / wanted ?
   
   
4. When I click "Update Proposal" in the Mass & Site tab in Revit, the update doesn't push through. All massing / floor / building remain the same. Have I done it right or I have missed something important ?
   
   
5. Is there a way I can remove a Forma proposal from Revit and load new one (as update proposal doesn't quite work for me...) without the need of starting a new Revit project every time ?
   I am trying to retain Revit setup so the update from Forma can be more interactive rather than setting up all the parameter / schedule  / naming all from scratch every time.
   
   
6. How does the "Send to Revit (beta)" button work in Forma ? I tried to use that to update the massing from Forma, but nothing happen in Revit.
   
   

Thank you everyone for your help in advance.

Soki

[kronz]

Hi Soki, great questions and thanks for the feedback! Answers below (and some also available in this document)

1. For the Revit output we would like to have a consistency of either scheduling mass floor area or actual floor area.
   Using the Revit plug-in, "buildings" translate into actual floors / walls / roof / rooms which are tremendously useful. "3D sketches" in Forma, however, only translate into mass floor. Is there a way to turn a "3D sketch" into "building" in Forma ?
   No, the 3d Sketch elements have a varied enough set of representations (faceted and tilted elements and no guarantee that what you perceive as a "wall" or "roof" is explicitly tagged with building semantics) that having a reliable representation of Revit walls, floors, and roofs hasn't been something we're able to achieve (yet). You'll need to use the "by-face" tools available in Revit to assign these Revit elements.
   
   
2. If #1 is not possible, I imagine we can use "mass" instead of "building" in Forma to get the consistency. However, the assigned function / typologies in Forma doesn't translate into Revit. Am I doing it right or I have missed certain steps to get the functions translated into the properties of the Revit mass floor ?
   Just to be clear, are you hoping to have functions that are assigned to Forma 3d Sketches appear as a parameter of the mass floors in Revit (EG, "Usage" parameter or something else?)? We currently don't do that, but could look into it. We'd love to hear how you'd like to see that kind of information presented in Revit.
   
   
3. In Forma, is there a way to name a building / mass, so when it translate into Revit it comes with the building numbering that align with what the project needed / wanted ?
   Sorry, no, there isn't currently the ability to name building elements in Forma. In the conversion process for creating levels and floors in Revit, we use some basic heuristics to distinguish and auto-name levels based on separate building masses
   
   
4. When I click "Update Proposal" in the Mass & Site tab in Revit, the update doesn't push through. All massing / floor / building remain the same. Have I done it right or I have missed something important ?
   You will need to refresh (F5) the Forma proposal that has been update from Revit in order to see the Revit information.
   
   
5. Is there a way I can remove a Forma proposal from Revit and load new one (as update proposal doesn't quite work for me...) without the need of starting a new Revit project every time ?
   I am trying to retain Revit setup so the update from Forma can be more interactive rather than setting up all the parameter / schedule  / naming all from scratch every time.
   Currently the only way to remove a proposal from Revit is to Undo the load operation
   
   
6. How does the "Send to Revit (beta)" button work in Forma ? I tried to use that to update the massing from Forma, but nothing happen in Revit.
   The "Send to Revit (beta)" button in Forma is essentially a one-time use notification that their is data ready for Revit to pull down from the Forma project. After that data has been fetched (Load Proposal in Revit), you will need to Send to Revit again if you want to get that data again in another project. 

[soki_s]

Thank you @kronz for the help.

For #2, I am wondering where the does functions (residential / commercial / retail etc.) translate into Revit in the 3D sketch / Revit mass form ?
When I load the project into Revit, the functions are all in the rooms. But now it appears the most consistency way I can building the massing model in Forma and translate into Revit is actually mass / mass floor which doesn't tell whether the floor is residential / commercial etc.

For #4, am I right in understanding what you suggest is that after I load the Forma model into Revit, any changes I make in Revit can be pushed back into Forma ? If yes, it is also a very useful workflow so I can do something more precise in Revit and go back to Forma for analysis. Otherwise, I was originally thinking any changes I make in Forma, for example if I increase the height of a block, can be recognized in Revit (reflecting the increase in number of mass floor in this case). I updated the model in Forma, then I pressed "send to Revit (beta)", then I click update in the Revit site & terrain tab, but nothing happened. The Revit model didn't pick up the change in the Forma model. Ending up I need to start a new Revit project and reload everything from scratch (and format schedules from scratch to capture areas and functions etc. at a masterplan level.

Is there anything you can enlighten me again ?
Thanks so much in advance.

Soki

[kronz]

For #2, we don't currently write Function information to Revit masses from 3dSketch elements. You aren't missing anything
#4, yes, Update Proposal will bring new and modified elements in Revit back to the Forma project.
This video might clarify things for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oJx58a0Z5c

[eklingerHFVZ3]

I want to continue with this topic by suggesting another workflow for Revit. The problem I am facing is with the orientation of the geometry as it imports into Revit in relation to true north. In our testing file, we had a building that was modeled in Forma to be parallel to the street face, resulting in a building that was rotated 1.67 degrees off-axis. When pushing the building from Forma into Revit, the building imports exactly as it was drawn in Forma, meaning it is slightly off-axis - which is not ideal for plans. I tried to counteract this by rotating the True North in the project to offset the model rotation and switch between True North and Project North, but the building still imported at the same off-axis orientation. It was only when using the "rotate Project North" option in Revit that I was able to make the walls completely perpendicular to the sheet space, but this unfortunately also rotated all the grids, scope boxes, levels, etc., set up in my project template.

I have tested this out and tried to remedy it with the company BIM manager, but we were not able to make any headway on the matter. It seems like it would be better if we were somehow able to tell Forma what orientation we wanted the model to import at. Or maybe if the model would set the True North angle correctly upon import, so the plan orientation was always correct.

This workflow issue is preventing me from recommending the Forma to Revit workflow to my users. I really hope this can be addressed.

[kronz]

Hi, thanks for the feedback. Just to clarify a couple of things.
I'm assuming you mean Forma when you are writing FormIt in all the cases above? 
Rotating Project North is for sure the right way to go to create perpendicular relationships to sheets and other documentation (Rotating True North will only introduce inaccuracies for projects that are correctly geolocated). The side effects that Project North has on other content is a deeply Revit-y thing that I'm afraid we aren't really able to address here. 

If I understand your request, you'd like for Forma to have a sense of "Project North" that is also synced with Revit. At the moment this isn't planned, as there isn't really a documentation aspect of Forma right now. 
How does your office handle imports from other applications that include geolocated data?

[eklingerHFVZ3]

Maybe I misunderstood the reason behind the Revit important feature of forma. I would have thought that having the ability to move directly from Forma to Revit would be so that you could continue with the design and documentation process? Maybe I am also misunderstanding the process of how to counteract this programmed function of forma. My firm has a Revit template with scope boxes, levels, starting grades, etc. all set up and ready to go. If forma is going to import the model at a true north angle, but not set the true north angle to match in Revit then I don’t see how this is useful. Rotating project north, as mentioned in the previous comment results in scope boxes that are rotated grid lines that are rotated, and all sorts of other undesirable consequences. Again, maybe I misunderstanding the workflow. Maybe somebody else on this form can help clarify this or if this has been a problem for your firm?

[barcelonaclubs1]

The Form It to Revit workflow allows for seamless transfer of design information from Form It, a conceptual design tool, to Revit, a more detailed modeling and documentation software. Here are a few common questions and answers regarding this workflow:

• Can I import FormIt models directly into Revit?
  Yes, you can import FormIt models into Revit by using the "Import CAD" function. This will allow you to bring in the FormIt model as a background reference for further development in Revit.
• Are the elements in the FormIt model preserved when imported into Revit?
  FormIt elements, such as walls, floors, and roofs, are imported into Revit as Revit native elements. However, some adjustments and modifications may be necessary to align the imported geometry with Revit's standards and constraints.
• Can I continue to work on the FormIt model in Revit?
  After importing the FormIt model into Revit, you can further refine and develop the design using Revit's powerful modeling and documentation capabilities.
• How does the synchronization between FormIt and Revit work?
  Changes made in the FormIt model can be synchronized with Revit using the "Reload from FormIt" command in Revit. This allows you to update the Revit model with the latest changes made in the FormIt model.

Overall, the FormIt to Revit workflow facilitates the transition from early-stage design exploration in FormIt to detailed modeling and documentation in Revit, providing a comprehensive design and documentation process within a single software ecosystem.

[barcelonaclubs1]

The FormIt to Revit workflow involves transferring data and models between two distinct software platforms – FormIt and Revit. When considering this workflow, several essential questions arise to ensure a smooth and efficient transition of data and maintain the design's integrity.

• How do I import a FormIt model into Revit? Understanding the import process is crucial to avoid potential data loss or inaccuracies.
• What file formats are compatible for transferring FormIt data to Revit? Identifying compatible formats will ensure seamless data exchange between the two applications.
• Does the geometry from FormIt remain intact when imported into Revit? Verifying the geometry's fidelity guarantees a reliable foundation for further development in Revit.
• Are material properties preserved during the FormIt to Revit workflow? Accurate material representation is vital for visualization and coordination.
• What are the best practices for handling units and scale between FormIt and Revit? Consistent units and scale are crucial for maintaining accuracy and coordination.
• Can I transfer parametric data or other attributes from FormIt to Revit elements? Preserving essential data enhances the modeling process in Revit.
• Are there any limitations or known issues when transitioning from FormIt to Revit? Being aware of potential issues helps in devising effective workarounds.
• What are the recommended best practices for a smooth FormIt to Revit conversion? Following established best practices ensures a more successful workflow.
• Are there any plugins or third-party tools that can aid in the FormIt to Revit workflow? Leveraging specialized tools can streamline the data exchange and enhance collaboration.

Addressing these questions will equip users with the necessary knowledge to navigate the FormIt to Revit workflow efficiently, leading to a more seamless and productive design process.

[justinhandrickson]

Welcome to Forma! Here are some answers to your questions:

1. Converting 3D Sketch to Building in Forma:

   • Currently, Forma doesn't have a direct conversion from 3D sketches to buildings. You may need to manually create buildings using the desired parameters.

2. Assigning Functions/Typologies to Mass in Forma:

   • While Forma allows you to assign functions/typologies, the direct translation to Revit parameters might not be straightforward. You might need to map these parameters manually during the export process.

3. Naming Buildings/Masses in Forma for Revit Translation:

   • Yes, you can name buildings/masses in Forma. Ensure you provide meaningful names, and they should carry over to Revit during the translation process.

4. Issues with Updating Proposal in Revit:

   • Ensure that all the necessary synchronization steps are completed. If the update isn't working, check for any error messages or review the Forma and Revit logs for potential issues.