Flame Unleashed – New Prices, New Platforms – ALL FLAME!

Flame Unleashed – New Prices, New Platforms – ALL FLAME!

Grant.Kay
Alumni Alumni
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Message 1 of 55

Flame Unleashed – New Prices, New Platforms – ALL FLAME!

Grant.Kay
Alumni
Alumni
Hi Everyone,
 
I wanted to share some exciting news if you haven’t already heard!
 
We have just announced some exciting changes for our Flame Family 
 
There are more ways then ever before to get on Flame!
  • Flame now available with Desktop Subscription Plans 
  • Flare and Flame Assist available as standalone products (No Flame Premium required)
  • Buy your own hardware 
  • Flame will be coming soon to Mac OS X !
This is really exciting and please visit http://flameunleashed.com to more information.
 
Kind Regards
Grant

Grant Kay
Principal Learning Content Developer

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Official Autodesk Flame Learning Channel
http://www.youtube.com/flamehowtos

The Official Autodesk Smoke Learning Channel
http://www.youtube.com/smokehowtos

Also available as podcasts on iTunes

Follow me on twitter @discreetuk for the latest training updates.
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4,376 Views
54 Replies
Replies (54)
Message 21 of 55

arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator
Thanks Yann, will contact them
HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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Message 22 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

Great news!

waiting for this for many years, better late than never..

I'm feeling happy and exitend about this..

 

where can read about the precise diferences between Flame Assist and Flare?

 

cheers 

 

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Message 23 of 55

fred.warren
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hello emora,

 

Unfortunately, the comparison table is not available at the moment. Here are the biggest highlights between the two:

 

- Flare is the creative companion to Flame. It is Batch centric and has the same Batch and Action tool as Flame. It cannot Conform, and there's no Tools tab. The Timeline is available, but it's Sequence workflow is limited.

 

- Flame Assist is the technical companion to Flame. It is Timeline centric and has Batch FX. Batch is not available and some Flame creative tools in Batch FX and Action are not available. Flame Assist can conform and has a limited Tools tab.

 

- Only Flame has the Desktop Reels.

 

I don't know if this is precise enough for you. Let me know if it is not.

 

fred


Frédéric Warren
User Experience Designer
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Message 24 of 55

arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator

In case any Autodesk marketing people are reading the forum, I just contacted  XTFX (London) and Jim Totman pointed out that, as of now, there is no educational pricing and that XTFX had expressed concerns about this to AD on the announcement of Flame on Mac. Obviously I am hoping that licences are free for education as per Smoke and other AD software (especially as we could place it on more than one or two computers) , but if there is going to be a reduction for education it would be good to know about this sooner rather than later. 

 

Cheers

Tony

HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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Message 25 of 55

yann.laforest
Autodesk
Autodesk

Hi Tony,

 

Marketing was informed of the situation and we will follow up offline with you on this.

 

 

 

Regards,

Yann

Yann Laforest

Program Manager Data Analytics - Autodesk EMS
10 rue Duke Street
Montréal (Québec) Canada H3C 2L7
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Message 26 of 55

arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator

Thanks for that (very speedy reply) Yann

 

Cheers

Tony

HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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Message 27 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

Frédéric, thank you!.  It does help.... but an exact list would be better.

tools like: atomizer, the new gmask tracer are flame only?  or are they available in Flare. also?

I'm familiar with Smoke and Flame assist.. just need to now if Flare has everything that i'm missing from Flame, inside FAssist.. hope that makes sense..

 

E

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Message 28 of 55

fred.warren
Autodesk
Autodesk

@Anonymous wrote:

Frédéric, thank you!.  It does help.... but an exact list would be better.

tools like: atomizer, the new gmask tracer are flame only?  or are they available in Flare. also?

I'm familiar with Smoke and Flame assist.. just need to now if Flare has everything that i'm missing from Flame, inside FAssist.. hope that makes sense..

 

E


Atomize and GMask Tracer are available in Flare, but not in Flame Assist. All the creative tools present in Flame's Batch are available in Flare's Batch.

 

Quickly, here are some other differences between the two:

 

* Flame Assist has all the Top Area views except the Desktop Reels. Flare only has the Player and Fullscreen Player.

 

* Flare has the following tools in Batch: 3D Blur, Distort, Exposure, GMask Tracer, Keyer 3D, Lens Distort, Motion Convert, Substance Noise, and Substance Splatter.

 

* Flare has the following tools inside the MK node: Exposure, GMask Tracer and Keyer 3D.

 

* Flare has the following tools inside the Action node: Matchbox, Lightbox, 3D Shape, Atomize, Deform Mesh, GMask (all flavors), IBL, Import SVG, Particles, Perspective surface, Projector, Replica, Shader, Substance Materialize, Substance Texture, Depth of Field and Planar Tracking.

 

* Flare supports the following Maps inside the Action node: Emissive, Normals, Parallax, Position, Specular and UV.

 

fred

 


Frédéric Warren
User Experience Designer
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Message 29 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable
Golden Info!, keep it coming if possible.
Thx!
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Message 30 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

I simply could not agree more.

 


@Anonymous wrote:

hey Mike,

 

imo the only way to stop the drain of users, not only to nuke, but to any other software is to increase the product quality and functionality. when i started with flame (about 20 Years ago) it was kind of strage in terms of how to use it. like no timeline, or the three folder libary, or the desktop reels, but every tool inside the box was the best tool on the planet. flame once had the best tracker, the best keyer (yes, even better than cineon), best color correction, best roto tools, best way to combine a 3D workspace with a 2D workfow, you name it... and it had the best performance at the same time (even when you compare with software on the same platform like i.e. cineon oder illusion). and it was super reliable. so the product really was one of a kind.

look at it today. i really don't want to blame it, it still has good quality tools inside. but it is not longer supreme in all tasks. a few tools are imo still the best on the planet. but most are either average, or even bad. and what i think is even worse, adesk do not listen to the users at all. they change things or build in "features" that every flame artists hate, and the answer of adesk is allways the same: "you are the only one who hates this, everybody else loves this feature, you just have to learn it" sounds familliar?

so what i like with this new plan to give away flame for free coz this is what it really is, they are giving away flame for free now and the only thing you do is still pay the mainenance. they just changed the name mainenance to subscription.

but the real big deal is that now, hopefully many people from other software solutions will try flame, compare it with their solutions and give their feedback, and maybe, if we are lucky, adesk will listen coz they are simply way more people than we just few flame users today.

imo one of the problems with flame today is not a lack of technical skills of their engineers, i think that the problem is that the decision makers do not really understand their product anymore. Just remember the 20th aniversary talk on nab, where they had the first flame users to talk about flame. and one of them said: "jeah well these new features are all fancy and that but i can do it 5 times faster with one action on the desktop" and then he even proved it, live, without any preperation. and the only effect was that phillipe changed his face colors and said something like "well this is the way it is now" or "oh thats kind of an oldschool way"

they simply don't understand what flame is about, and what great features they already had.

 

but let's see, hopefully this will bring way more users who want to learn flame, and mybe adesk will listen to them.and hopefully they will not all come from fcpx  😉

 

but for the adesk members here, i know this is just me who thinks this way, everybody else loves it the way it is. 😉


I simply could not agree more.

 

Definetley, they do not understand their own product, I have said that at a bunch of occasions.  But its really not about that anymore.  Their current and only and only goal is to simply move flame off the shelves, whatever it takes, whatever.  To a point where they are giving it away for free.  Yes its free, you are only paying for support subscriptions now, and that too is less than what cost before Smiley Happy.  And soon, you will not even have to pay that, there will be a student or learning version out soon (just like smoke on mac 13) that you would be able download and install without any proper student credentials (just like you did for the smoke on mac 13).  It will be super free now, not a bad thing, but the end-casuality is the product' integrity itself which has already long been compromised due one after another bad and haphazard decisions 🙂



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Message 31 of 55

fred.warren
Autodesk
Autodesk

@Anonymous wrote:

In case any Autodesk marketing people are reading the forum, I just contacted  XTFX (London) and Jim Totman pointed out that, as of now, there is no educational pricing and that XTFX had expressed concerns about this to AD on the announcement of Flame on Mac. Obviously I am hoping that licences are free for education as per Smoke and other AD software (especially as we could place it on more than one or two computers) , but if there is going to be a reduction for education it would be good to know about this sooner rather than later. 

 

Cheers

Tony


Hello Tony,

 

Please visit http://www.flameunleashed.com and have a look at the "Educational Facility?" link at the very bottom of the page. Clicking on this will open a window where the following is stated at the top:

 

Get free Autodesk software for your school

Qualified educational institutions can get free access to leading Autodesk Creative Finishing software. It's our way of helping schools educate the designers, engineers, animators and makers of tomorrow.

 

fred


Frédéric Warren
User Experience Designer
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Message 32 of 55

arichards
Collaborator
Collaborator

Thanks for the info and the heads-up Fred. I am onto it...

 

Cheers

Tony

HP Z840, 80GB Ram, Quadro M6000x24GB
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Message 33 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

@Anonymous wrote:

.... so long as it works out of the box on day one. If theres any instability its done and people wont look again then the product dies when we retire. The saddest outcome from the 2013 experiment was that none of the young guys who got excited about smoke stuck around. They looked, the played they said no. And sadly thats part of the reality of flame operation, you can't dabble. If you wanna be a flame guy you got to learn your stuff and you got to put the hours in. In a world of Red Giant Universe, Videohive templates and Magic Bullet I dont know how many people will have the neccesary level of dedication.

 

Ultimately the legend that is Flame is based more than anything on the simple fact that its been tough as hell to become a flame artist, so if you booked a flame suite you got a consumate professional who lived and breathed the box. I wonder if that attitude will survive the inclusion of new more casual flame users.

 

The most exciting part of all this is people are talking about flame again, but this time its a real product not the erm smoke and mirrors that 2013 was.

 

Mike


Mike, I agree with pretty much everything that you have said.  But my biggest worry is what you wrote in the quoted paragraphs above, that the crowd that flame now is being positioned to may not have the dedication, knack, aptitude, motivation, desire, patience, etc to learn a deep set of code designed for a specialized tasks.  We saw that happen with crash and burn of smoke 13 experiment.  And the fear is that AD may not learn from the results from that experiment and may continue to dilute the product in the hopes that some day these folks will start to pick it up.

 

 

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Message 34 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

Another aspect here is this, in the last three years or so we have seen more and more percentage of the developement toward making flame more like a film-pipeline driven, individual shots-based, desktop software app (with some finishing and conforming tools and aspects) versus a rock solid finishing/onlining hero box.  Its clear as day and you dont have to be a rocket scientist to see that.

 

I mean in all of the meetings that I have had with AD, I see noding, folks taking notes, acknowledging, assuring, etc.  We are asked to send lists of things we'd like, etc.  But the requests and lost critical features dont get implemented in the successive releases (these are not only my personal workds.)  And this has been going on for the last three years or so.  There is a huge pecentage who has gone thru and is still going thru this drill.  But what does get released (in broken forms) things like token naming etc, etc, while we all struggle and fight the thing for eleven hours every day in the hopes that its next version will fix this and that.

 

I am not against the Token naming etc as it serves many aspects well but you could clearly tell where AD's priorities of the moment are.

 

And the good ol excuse thats presented to us by AD is:  "Well we get tonnes of requeset from many users asking for different things, so its hard to decipher whats important or in more demand or not".  Do you really think people out there actually buy that?  There could only be two possiblities here, you either do not understand your own product or you just don't care about the product.  Either way you make yourself look bad in terms of pure public relations and customer confidence.

 

So, its either AD does not exactly get whats broken or they are simply playing this game of poker face and the good old "What do you mean?  You are really the only one who doesn't like it, everybody else LOVES it".  All of us have heard that and quite frankly its gotten pretty tiring by now.

 

I see Will every now and then and I personally have faith in him as well but.  I have known Bill Ennis for about fourteen years now.  These people are problably the last of the original team members that are still at AD and know flame probably more than anyone else there.  And I have complete faith in these two.  But the trouble is, what I personally read and believe is that their hands themselves are tied in some ways.  These two are extremely helpful and dedicated individuals and just like us want flame to succeed, but they could only go in a direction whats being asked of them by the execs at AD.

 

I was chatting with a shop owner here in LA yesterday and he mentioned that the trouble is that the studios owners/users are so pissed about this whole anniversary edition nonsense that they don't even know where to to begin (as to how AD has broken the flame).  And then when they are asked "what is it that you dont like" or "Could you please make a list of things you prefer or you don't like", they are just dumb founded.  Its like do you even know your own product or how its used out there?

 

The above questions from AD is like saying to the customers, hey guys, we know that we have abandoned our Ferrari and now manufacturing Toyota Corolla to compete with Honda Civic, so please tell us what is it you dont like about our new car and what funcitons we can add to our new Toyota to make you happy.  While any serious flame artrist, owner/user knows that you could add all the latest and the greatest functions you desire to the Toyota, but you will still be building upon a weak chassis that is not designed to corner well on a race track which is an absolute necessaity, its not designed to deal with the stress and vigors that an experienced driver on a race track would put upon it, and its not designed to stay composed when pushed to its limits during the race to the finish line.  And that what flame was all about, until we were hit by the anniversary edition.

 

When the above mentioned things are brought up, there is always this blank look or poker face, and deafing silence in response from the other side, leading to Just pure and pure frustaration and uncertainty all around.

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Message 35 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

@Anonymous wrote:

I was chatting with a shop owner here in LA yesterday and he mentioned that the trouble is that the studios owners/users are so pissed about this whole anniversary edition nonsense that they don't even know where to to begin (as to how AD has broken the flame).  And then when they are asked "what is it that you dont like" or "Could you please make a list of things you prefer or you don't like", they are just dumb founded.  Its like do you even know your own product or how its used out there?


 

I primarily use Lustre, but work in a building with several dozen Flames.  When I talk to all of our Flame artists, they could not be more pumped about where Flame is headed.  These are people with 10 or more years in, working on large projects, and none of them lament the changes in Anniversary Edition.  I'm sorry you're unhappy, but the idea that the feeling is somehow universal just isn't true. 

 

As far as the learning curve is concerned, Flame is no more difficult to learn than Nuke or Maya.  Both of those apps require talent and dedication to master and there are plenty of people out there doing that.  With the new pricing structure, the Flame apps sit in a complementary sector of the high-end post world with tools like Nuke, Maya, 3ds Max, Houdini, Mari, Modo, etc. 

 

I actually think the breakout hit of all this is going to be Flare.  It's a more creative, more interactive alternative to Nuke, that runs easily on a wide variety of hardware.  Now that it's available separately outside of Flame Premium, I think we'll start to see Batch showing up in all sorts of places it was never allowed before. 

 

Lots of people haplessly mention Fusion as a reason none of this matters, but if you want to see a pissed off user community just read some posts from a few veteran Fusion users over at SteakUnderwater:

 

http://www.steakunderwater.com/wesuckless/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=505

 

or the Blackmagic Fusion forum:

 

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38799&p=225661

 

Fusion in general is very cool, but there was so much Windows-only code, Blackmagic had to cut out a large amount of core functionality to bring it to OS X.  BMD will beat it into shape over time, but Version 8 is very buggy right now.  If you want to get anything done, you have to go back to Version 7, and if you really want all of the functionality Fusion used to have, you'd need to go all the way back to 6.4 (2012) which was the lastest release before the BMD buyout.

 

Between Fusion being in a state of flux, and Nuke as a static, days-per-shot pipeline tool, for anyone wanting to bang out high-end work in short order, this is a really good time for Flare, and by extention Flame/ Flame Assist, to make some serious headway.

 

 

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Message 36 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

Interesting post and consistent with a great deal of the frustration felt by some long term users. And as we head towards 2016 ext 1 sp2 the frustrations have reduced. The last two releases have started to fix workflow issues while adding long overdue core feature updates (tracer and increased contextual views) whilst also extending the hero box feature set with things like conform enhancements.

 

Is the new GUI still in many ways more laborious and slow to use? Absolutely. Does it still crash a lot more than classic Flame? Without question. But is it becoming more streamlined and more stable... yes and yes.

 

I think the car analogy worked when we had me and Brian tongue in cheek jibing about Ferraris and your dad's Oldmobile, but as amusing as it all was at the time the reality is the industry is rapidly changing from a facility driven one to a talent driven one. As it evolves/devolves into a cottage industry of self employed owner operators we all want speed boats. AD in this context is a large ship, doing its best to turn as quickly as it can - but just as with anything large it has momentum. A lot of momentum.

 

There were a raft of brain damaged decisions made in the 2013 adventure. They were made partly from a misguided belief of a position of strength based on total market dominance of a sector of the business but also from fear, fear that the industry was changing too fast for them to maintain relevance.

 

And relevance is where its at as a company. Its ok to lose or gain a few customers here and there as you turn and turn again, thats the nature of the game, but if you lose relevance you lose everything. You see a hero box or even a hero compositor (of which I have been one for over 30 years) is an anachronism in 2015. It doesn’t matter how good I am or how fast or powerful any box is when the size of most projects now requires 1000 compositors. AD was left in the position Quantel faced, Flame was still an island, still the exotic boat you can only use on special occasions, which doesn't have the jet engine of the speed boat and doesn't have enough bedrooms for a long cruise.

 

2013 sought to first fix the bedroom issue by moving away from a purely uncompressed workflow to allow much more rushes and longer form work to exist in a realistically affordable framestore (they didn’t go all the way and let us archive those projects but thats for another post). Once we had the room for all our friends to sleep it was pretty clear that the maid service wasn’t up to the new number of passengers. This got addressed by sorting out conform to let us get passengers into their rooms more easily and improving export. Once you start to move lots of things around at the same time, be they passengers or shots, you need to have a token system or you are back to renaming things all the time.

 

If you think of the token system and conform as the gates to paradise it quickly becomes more obvious that you need version control and some hooks back into the real world. This has led to python being added most recently but we are also waiting to see the real fruit from the Shotgun purchase. The hooks are all there, backburner, shotgun, python, token based naming, automatic reloading of cg elements and so on... Its going to all come together very soon - the AD travel agency for frames 🙂

 

I can keep the analogy going but I think its safe to say the point is there is a modern infrastructure almost complete below the surface which will make all of our lives massively better. Linked conform is the tip of that iceberg.

 

The problem that continues to exist is that much of these links to the outside world of necessity add SOME overhead to our day to day workflow in the one man band world. Which is contradictory to the one man band nature of the freelance world. Its like when Quantel added Picturebox to its broadcast workflow. No longer did a paintbox frame get a single one line name when you saved it, it also had a page of nonsense about project/show/artist etc etc. No one ever filled them in as no time. Today of course a project database could fill everything but the name in, but back then it was an extra confirm press every single time you saved a painted frame. No one ever filled in the info but Quantel never went back despite at least as much hand wringing as we see here. 

 

Which brings us in a circuitous route to my next point. It might be just me. Or you. As a post house Harry artist I had very different needs in my Paintbox to the graphics department of TV station. I only wanted speed. I still only want speed. And about 100 other things. But mostly speed. Well ok speed and stability. Perhaps speed, stability and flexibility. So even I want three probably contradictory things. Add everyone else and I'd hate to be trying to make everyone happy.

 

Theres two things happening at the same time right now. The commercial industry is dying. It needs to. No one watches or believes tv commercials. It's sad but true. I made my name bought houses and raised a son cutting ads, but they are done. There's a few great clients I still work with who make classical big ads but generally even car tvcs (MY MARKET) now are retail crap '29,999 drive away no more to pay' it's a world of simple manufacturer supplied stock shots and after effects graphics with the offer of the day 'free metallic paint!!!!' and lies 'overseas model shown not available in all markets'. '29,999*'  *not including tyres engine or steering wheel. Ads did it to themselves, they became respectable. When it was advertising and we all got smashed on whisky by 11pm it was full of characters, crazy driven directors and passionate art directors with acidic copywriters that made Lou Reed seem like a nice polite boy. But it transitioned into marketing and USPs and a world of 'testing' and 'conference calls' to make creative decisions. Marketing doesn't need a hero box. It doesn't need heroes. It needs a nice safe reliable delivery structure with version control and a robust token system. And that's what they've built. There will be more Flame suites in cubicles at ******* than in suites like mine with the 6 grand sofa, aeron chairs, balcony with city views and fully stocked bar and fridge.

 

Is that a bad thing? Well it is for me. I like a nice sofa and a fridge. But is it for the many new Flame guys working for the pipeline versioning facilities? Only in so far as they will never have a 5k lunch on expenses:) but I'm glad cocaine is no longer a tax deductible overhead on a client entertainment line item and I'm way too old to be sitting in the suite until 4am as people drink my Jacobs Creek while people shout 'I'm stuck in an edit suite!' into their cell phones, agonising over choice of font for a disclaimer.

 

But I said two things remember? At the same time as advertising revenue vanishes we are seeing Nuke take no prisoners in the feature film world. As film comps have blown from an average of 6 or 7 things on screen to a 200+ elements nightmare the Flame workflow dies. GPU driven speed matters less with dense multiple layers of EXRs with deep compositing the norm not the exception and a need to conform to pipeline layering for the inevitable Indian post stereo conversion. So where in the film world does Flame fit? Its for the shows that don’t have a million layers of VFX CGI. It fits just fine as a hero clean up bang out fixes box - just like it is/was in TVCs. Nothing can rip through 2D compositing like a Flame. But to get into that position it has to fit into a pipeline. Hell even in a modern TVC pipe it needs pipeline tools, if you look at any of the few big TVCs being built the timelines are so short now they have to be made by comp teams in Nuke and After Effects in the bowels of the earth to even get close to the budget and hit delivery dates. This means iterations and pipeline tools.

 

 

To summarise a very disorderly post I hate many of the same changes that you do, I hate a lot of the odd aesthetic choices made in the interests of being OS like (copy a clip and move a clip looking identical with a ghost left behind??? wtf) but the new guys have had almost no time to change the direction of the big ship. With a Mac version happening which we have all wanted for a long time (goodbye Red Hate) the new linked conform, the version token system, and the barely scratched Python tools its coming good. Give them a chance.

 

 

The industry has moved past heroes. And that’s ok. Im glad Autodesk has seen the writing on the exclusive club wall and is moving to a more inclusive product offering. It might just survive. The very fact that we are all still here still complaining so passionately means they still have our hearts and minds - simply because like it or loathe it - nothing does it better.

 

Message 37 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

Any producer with half a clue could put together a camera, a codex and a flame these days.

Throw in an editor, a compositor or two and you have a tv show from a handful of people.

I'd say that eliminates 85% of the middlemen and 100% of the runaround.

 

The race is on to find a producer with half a clue.

 

 

 

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Message 38 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

There's a huge number of producers around that are very tech savvy, I even have a director client who does his own Boujou tracking as he hates the delays it creates when he leaves it to post houses and another director client who does his own Maya as he got sick of being given excuses as to why what he wanted was impossible. Several another directors and I bounce shake scripts back and forth during previz.

 

The real change is that post house budgets no logger cover the layers of middle management that large tvcs demand. They barely even cover client services. I still get clients from Vietnam and places that arrive in town requiring 3 vans to drive them around, meals and entertainment but the budgets just dont warrant that level of clients service if you are paying runners, facilities, bookings, producers and dubs. Those kinds of clients love working with me as we get the client service right whilst having a very light number of support staff. But that type of client wont be working in someones bedroom anytime soon. *Unless it's slightly cheaper...

 

On the other hand many clients have tried doing finsihing level post in house many many times over the years and it invariably result in them coming back for fixes. Buying a Flame or Nuke takes 5 minutes, delivering quality shots takes a bit longer. Being able to deal with any eventuality and still always deliver on time takes a career.

 

Mike

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Message 39 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

Well if you want to get all anecdotal about it, I watch producers spend 5 million US per episode on projects that are doomed to fail before they get halfway through a season.

 

2 weeks ago I watched 20 people shoot two 3 second FX element shots (a fireball and a cloud of smoke).

It took them 10 hours.

Nobody on the crew was under 35 except for the producer's son (whose job was to smoke cigarettes outside).

 

Simultaneously hilarious and painful.

 

No I wasn't a contractor on that show.

 

As for commercials - I don't know about that world and since by your anecdotes it's dying I don't care to learn.

Once upon a time I was full of enthusiasm for movies until I learned the grim truth.

 

I fill my days these days being a librarian and a poor man's sysadmin.

🙂

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Message 40 of 55

Anonymous
Not applicable

I fill my days making pretty pictures like I have every day since 1984.

 

Somedays to achieve that I have be a psychiatrist, a comedian, an entertainer and occasionally an engineer. That's the gig.

 

We all work if film and tv, every day we see crazy waste. Or so it seems. I see shoots return to the same location on three different days - seems crazy until you find out that the key actors were not available at the same time. 

 

I way prefer working with an older crew if the one you watched was incompetent then son, youre workign with the wrong people and their age has nothing to do with it. My old client Ridley Scott seems to be doing fine as does my client David Wynn-Jones, his first job was clapper loading on 2001, he's worked on pretty much every decent UK movie and many others including the French Connection, Exorcist a Bond or two and a lot more and is a better designer of shots for VFX than anyone under 30 I ever met. Not to mention his knowldege of high-speed photography and high speed motion control combined with an inate knowledge of liquids and particle physics means he booked forever by clients such as Walls, Cadbury and so on...

 

The example you give is a bad one to judge a crew, fire and smoke are uncontrollable and the definition of happy accidents. You can sort of make the fireball go where you want (drop burning object past camera at high speed with dolly on a Bolt) but the final look is entirely out of your hands. So it is with all explosions and natural object manipulation. We have sent 4 hours exploding an Oreo over and over until we got exactly what we wanted. Fire, smoke, explosions and snapping biscuits always take time.

 

If they had an unduly hard time with takes not even close I would suggest they got the wrong practical fx guy or booked the wrong motion control rig or camera. If I was doing a hero fireball I'd be on a Phantom Flex and Bolt and there would probably be 20 people there, lighting crew alone for a high speed shoot would be about 5-6 guys, the Bolt crew is 2 guys to move it and an operator, the practical FX crew would be 2-3 guys, DOP, camera operator, asst camera and focus puller, DIT, VFX super (me), director, first AD (essential for language translation in my market), a PA, videoplayback guy and terranex guy. Then there would be some suits as EVERYONE likes to watch things burn.

 

Tvcs ARE receding. But that's good and fair as they were massively overpriced for decades - in 84 we used to charge 100 quid for a VHS dub of a 30 sec tvc. I'm happy to have worked and lived through the golden age of TVCs but I'm just as happy working on my mum's kitchen table as I am right now on a 10 part TV series. The only hard part is convincing my mum to bring drinks and snacks in a timely manner, something about me 'not being the only person in the house' or something. 

 

I retain enthusiasm for movies too, the only reason I bowed out of feature VFX supervision was my pretty well documented heart surgery. Things change all the time. The area with work flip flops, you need to be flexible. I still edit a lot of TVCs in Avid, my clients demand it and I'm happy to do it, I enjoy cutting as much as I enjoy online and compositing - I just do more Flame work than anything else, might as well - it pays best...

 

TV shows rarely succeed or fail on the quality of the shoot or the effects, they die because the scripts are bad and no one watches them. However, you're poking the wrong tree to criticise TV - we are indisputably living in an absolute golden age of television with amazing compelling shows being released every day and that's a market the flame/smoke already owns. 

 

best regards

 

Mike

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