Is there a way to define coordinates for points in a drawing?

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

Is there a way to pick a point in Civil 3D and state "the coordinates for this point shall be x and y" in World UCS? I know you can do this with a custom UCS but Data Shortcuts don't seem to work in the Current UCS - Data Shortcuts seem to be brought into World UCS. 

I found how to rotate North in Drawing Settings under the Transformation tab. I tried to set coordinates for a point via "Reference Point" and then entering the Northing and Easting but I don't think that's how it works.

I've been trying to find a solution to this for weeks. I think it's silly that you can't pick a point and say "the coordinates for this point will be changed from x1, y1 to x2,y2". Unless there is a way to do this? 

[Pointdump]

Hi Krzysztof,
'pick a point and say "the coordinates for this point will be changed from x1, y1 to x2,y2"'
MOVE Command? I probably don't understand. Can you explain with more details please?
Dave

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

@Pointdump 

The move or align command would be good, but if there are elements like surfaces and a bunch of user defined points, this doesn't go too well, especially if they need to be rotated and there are things like certain labels and slope arrows, which wouldn't rotate properly with the drawing. So basically I'm trying to set the World UCS coordinates based on known points. Along the lines of what setting a Custom / Current UCS does but for World UCS. 

[rl_jackson]

So if I understand you correctly, your trying to make observed coordinates that are at X bearing reflect a record X bearing, that could be done with the transform tab but it's a single point solution and it does not update instantly. You have to import the data, determine the transformation/rotation and then once determined re-import the data for it to come in corrected. (The process is a bit backwards IMO)

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

@rl_jackson 

How do I do this? Let's say a point is at x1, y1. Could I transform x1, y1 to x2,y2 without moving the entire drawing? Like where it shows x,y in properties I wish you could just type in the coordinates it should be at and the entire drawing coordinate system would be changed without having to move the entire drawing into the proper spot. So that coordinate system would change based on a specified point instead of coordinates remaining the same and having to move everything to the coordinates you want. 

How do I transfer the coordinate system? Like if a point is at 500,500 - how do I change it to be 1000,1000 without moving the entire drawing to the lcoation? 

[Pointdump]

Krzysztof,
OK, I finally figured out what you want to do. I can't think of any way to do it, but I'm curious. Why do you want to shift the drawing?
You can shift dumb linework, but Civil Objects are tough. For a Surface, don't shift the Surface, shift the objects that define the Surface. Labels and Slope Arrows, forget about it. Those would be a do-over.
Dave

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

@Pointdump 

So I've been using Civil 3D for 8 years and I consider myself pretty experienced. When I start project from scratch I never have issues. This current project was started based on 3 different surveys where the surveyor wasn't experienced in Civil 3D or CAD. The design was the started by 2 other companies. When we XREF'd their drawings and surveys into a new drawings, everything was so wrong. Drawing Settings varied between all, XREFs would come in at wrong scale, rotation, and way off in space. I've been working to correct this but made the mistake to force the proper coordinates using UCS and setting a custom UCS. Of course, when coordinates are called out they are based on World UCS. When Data Shortcuts are inserted, they are also in World UCS. So nothing comes in where it should. Is there a code I could use to bring in Data Shortcuts to come in based on Current UCS? Is there a way to display coordinates called out on points to be based on Current UCS? 

Or is there a way to change the World UCS like you would when you want to set a current UCS?

The work around I found is to move the entire drawing - all surfaces, inserted points, labels, etc... into the proper place in World UCS. This would be a very tedious task since the points lose their proper elevation would moved and the drawing need to be rotated so north is in the right direction. I guess I could move the entire drawing into the right place, set the surface at the right elevation, then label all the points again (hundreds of points). Then use the Drawing Setting Transformation tab to rotate it to proper North. It;s a nightmare. I don't understand why you cant pick a point in space and command "these coordinates shall be changed from x1, y1 to x2, y2"?

Any advise on how to do this without spending days to relabel everything and possibly lose data (since the proposed surface was created based on inserted custom points - which have their elevation changed when moved)? Maybe is a set a few polyline guidelines at elevation 0 in the proper location, place the same polyline guidelines through my street and XREF's... then move those guidelines to the other guidelines so the elevation for everything else doesn't change in elevation? Not sure how well this would work. 

[AllenJessup]

Unfortunately your method is what I'd considered the correct method. The WCS is the WCS and can't be changed in a drawing.
Drawing 2D polyline guidelines is a good way to keep things at the same elevation.
Another way would be to set OSNAPZ to one. The Z value of the picked points are ignored.
One trick I used to use is to establish a UCS for the drawing in a Paperspace Viewport. Then WBlock the entire drawing, by selecting all the entities and objects, form the PS Viewport. The WCS in the WBlocked drawing will be equal to the UCS in the original drawing. I haven't done that in a long time and haven't tested it with current Civil 3D objects.

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

@AllenJessup @Pointdump @rl_jackson 

I've never really had to use the Drawing Settings Transformation tab. I've been exploring this and I can find how to change the direction of North. I can pick a reference point for Easting and Northing - but it doesn't seem like I can transform them to something new. 

If there a way to set a custom coordinate system for what I have in my drawing, then change it to a new coordinate system that would put everything in the correct place? 

I really, really, REALLY don't want to move my entire drawing and rotate it. I would lose so much. I have a deadline tomorrow and it looks like this will be what I'll have to do. 

Also, one other question: how do I change datums? My current drawing doesn't have a datum (compliments of the 2 other companies that started it and the surveyor that didn't know how to use CAD). I didn't think this would be an issue so I was using Custom UCS the entire time. Now when it's time to Data Shortcut, everything is so messed up! I want to change NGVD to NAVD. Is there a way to shift my entire surface along with feature lines and custom inserted COGO points by 1.55? Or would I have to select all the points, feature lines and surface and move it by -1.55 in the Z direction. There really should be an easier way to do all this stuff. I'm trying to play around with the Transformation tab but I don't think it shifts the entire drawing elevation for all my data points... unless it does? Like if I set my sealevel datum to -1.55, will all my surface data then be based off of -1.55 instead of 0? Or can I enter an expression for the feature lines, COGO points and surface to make it -1.55?

Please help, my deadline is tomorrow. We have 3 teams for this project and the other teams are just doing linework and hatching, while I'm working 12+ and weekends to try to fix the issues that were present at the start of this project and doing all the heavy lifting. I was senior project manager, changed countries.... and now my title is just a basic engineer at this new company. I feel like I have to prove myself to get back to senior project manager but this is killing me. 

If I can't get the coordinates right before the deadline it's not the end of the world. But I need to shift datums from NGVD to NAVD within the next 24 hours. 

[Pointdump]

Hi Krzysztof,
"Is there a way to set a custom coordinate system for what I have in my drawing, then change it to a new coordinate system that would put everything in the correct place?"
Actually, there is. You could create a Custom Affine Projection and then use the new Drawing Transformations Tool. I've tested it a bit, and it seems to work. The Vertical Units Transformation only seems to work for Geoid Versions, not NGVD27 and NAVD88. The 11th hour is probably not the time to be diving down a rabbit hole.
Dave

[krzysztof.kozakDX266 · Accepted solution]

@Pointdump @AllenJessup @rl_jackson 

Thank you all for the responses! I finally got everything in the right coordinate system! Here's what I did:

1. Set drawing to World UCS

2. XREF the new survey (which is the only file in the proper coordinate system).

3. Group my entire drawing - Surfaces, feature lines, Custom Points, Flow Arrow.... Everything. 

4. Use the ALIGN command to set points at 0 elevation between the XREF and my group.

5. Ungroup. Every point and my surfaces retained the same elevation!

Now the next question is: I need to convert NGVD to NAVD. The difference is -1.55. Is there an easy way to do this or would I have to select all feature lines, breaklines, surfaces, custom points, etc... and move it in the Z direction by -1.55? I saw a drawing that had 2 expressions for points (one NVGD and one for NAVD). So is the best way to do this to move my surface, points and feature lines... or can I change the datum for the entire drawing by -1.55? 

[Pointdump]

MOVE 0,0,-1.55 everything EXCEPT the Surfaces. Move only the data that defines the Surfaces.
Dave

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

@Pointdump 

Also, I don't have what you show in my Toolbox. 

[AllenJessup]

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@krzysztof.kozakDX266 wrote

Also, I don't have what you show in my Toolbox. 

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2022 with the latest updates should have it.

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/civil-3d/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2022/ENU/Civi...

[Pointdump]

And I sure don't have what is in your Toolbox. 🙂
Look for "Coordinates Transformation Tool 2022 for Autodesk Civil 3D" on the Product Updates tab of your Account Page.
Dave

[krzysztof.kozakDX266]

Thanks everyone for the responses - greatly appreciated. Project is going well now.