Gutter flow line feature not used in curb return top surf DTM

[PeterKozub]

Hi all

I have been working thru the tutorials and the intersection wizard is a great constraining tool

to make intersections Its not a silly gizmo so far anyways

Thus far  its seems to automate well all the offset aligns and profiles so far in my

testing.

Autodesk inventor is so constraining it hard to draw a line with out tightening your belt and

swearing of extra cheese pizza to poke fun at inventor im a true beginner.....

But back to the point to make a top surf dtm Tin see attached  JPG and drawing

I seems that all goes well until the the white circled area 

please review the attached JPG

and the tutorial drawing

to see flow line gutter feature in not being used to make the top Surf DTM tin

Zoom into the attached DWG to the white circle

C3D 2017 will not save view on close so some zoom pan is required sorry

I added flow line gutter feature as a break line to surf definition and the triangles still seen odd in triangulation.

maybe i will try again tomorrow. 

i suspect that in these areas a feature line is required to further control top surf dtm  beyond using just links as breaks in the surf DTM

Thanks

Pete 

Computer

Xi Computer S/N: 037019
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Mem 24.0 GB
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12 Gig Video Card NVIDIA K6000
2 4k Monitors display port

Autodesk C3D 2017 subscription Service auto update

HP T120 Roll feed 24" plotter.

[Jeff_M]

Without opening the drawing, my first suggestion would be to tighten up the Frequency for curves in the curb return region. I typically use 2', sometimes 1'

[BrianHailey]

You haven't added the flowline of the curb to your surface. In your corridor surfaces, you only have the top links added. When you add links, these are the lines that run perpendicular to the baseline along the section. The featurelines are the ones that run between the sections. To find out which point codes to add as featurelines, look in the help file for the subassemblies you are using.

[Joe-Bouza]

I could be wrong but looking at your image it appears that a curb subassembly is still running through the intersection. I'm probably wrong - you are in good hands with Jeff & Brian

[PeterKozub]

I tried adding Flange, Flow line and top curb  feature lines to the surface definition 

the tin still was very odd and i would say worse then using links only.

I found using manual add lines to tin  made a proper model even thou at meet of flange to ETW

at curb EC a odd dip is there and a manual edit of the curb profile FG is required 

but things are very close.

The tin modeler is Nearest Neighbor Tin IN Action

Nearest Neighbor Tin IN Action is a OOps in this case the other way as Jeff M mention is to turn up the frequency so nearest neighbor will work

Please review attached JPGS

[PeterKozub]

Well im kind of C3D 2017 worn out 

so i think i will torture myself with Autodesk inventor 2018 for a while to make C3D 2017 look easy/normal

Regards 

[fcernst · Accepted solution]

You will want to increase the frequency no matter if you use just top links, or if you want to use feature lines in the surface definition.

Because if you don't, the surface built from the featurelines will still have long chords that do not form and model the curb return well.

[Jeff_M · Accepted solution]

Something to consider...what happens when you need to modify the design? All of those manual edits will no longer be valid. My rule of thumb is to NEVER modify the corridor surface directly. If I need to make edits, I will edit the corridor to get the surface right for it and paste the surface into a new surface, then fine tune things in that surface.

[PeterKozub]

It looks like turn up the frequency is the solution 

better than adding manual edits to the surface for those edits will fall apart if the corridor is changed and the old edits

make no connection to other new tin lines

At plot will have to use say every ten meters and i guess every 5 meters in intersection

Increasing frequency would also show odd dips humps in asphalt that require edits to the FG profile for curb.

So the additional busyness of increasing frequency has a additional benefit of revealing odd pavement slopes.

Pete

[fcernst]

Increasing frequency would also show odd dips humps in asphalt that require edits to the FG profile for curb...

Not necessarily..you could fly right over grade breaks in the baseline profile geometry..if you don't have the baseline profile geometry setting toggled on also under Frequency.

[PeterKozub]

Take a look at the end of curve X fall for pavement

I don't thing the pavement contractor would make this and would take this Cad model out by eye

All these extra sections are bogging down my computer so i think there may be a future in adding features lines

to control the tin corridor

i just can't make it work today maybe try again tomorrow.

Please review attached Jpgs

Regards

[fcernst]

You've got Primary crown maintained..sounds like you might like the way all Crowns maintained would look.

[PeterKozub]

Hi all

I found a work solution to help nearest neighbor tinning in corridor Curbs
for when links fail to control triangulation

Auto extract dynamic feature line from corridor

The use of increased corridor frequency is not required and thus no bogging down computer 

Extract 
Gutter flow
Gutter Top
Gutter Flange

and add to surface definition
These feature lines are supposed to be linked to corridor have not moved corridor around yet

Please examine attached images

It looks like just auto corridor feature lines are needed mostly on curb returns

The bonus of the corridor feature line is the Flow line goes to survey data collector
The surveyor just picks the 3d poly on the data collector screen to stake a 1.0 m O/S for the concrete curb machine

No more profiles or alignments or templates to build / muck up in the data collector just a happy surveyor = less stress

Carlson Surve Ce data collector can stake a 3d poly and show CL station and o/s to 3d poly

Pete

[fcernst]

No! You don't need to extract the featurelines to use them in a corridor surface.. as was mentioned before above.

This latest surface from you does not look very good:

[PeterKozub]

That is the before Dynamic Feature lines are added to control nearest neighbor Tinning

I don't now how to insert a image.

Please look at

the other after images

The surveyors need this 3D poly to stake the curb anyways

I have not tested the dynamic nature of the extracted 3D polys yet maybe tomorrow

[PeterKozub]

I did a basic test and draged the intersection north and the corridor updated 

the bonus is the extracted corridor flange ,flow line , top curb corridor feature updated properly due to the dynamic link to the corridor.

absolutely cool.... 

These updated feature lines again are further applied properly in the edit history for the top surface road. again cool this is one i was

worried might get broken until now

So no need to increase corridor frequency and bog down your computer.

This controlled the nearest neighbor tin algorithm used by top surface links making undesirable triangles from top curb to

flange curb etc.

and the surveyors get a very simple 3d poly line feature object to stake in there data collectors.

[fcernst]

Ughh..you're not using the software elegantly. Dynamic featurlines are not meant to use as surface definitions for your Corridor surface...use the Corridor featurlines as previously mentioned...Curb returns don't bog the software..close your Inventor before playing with Civil 3D..