Civil 3D Profile View Presentation Issue

[gros33]

Hi Forum community,

I've got this C3D profile issue that's been bugging me for a while...

I've asked a few good knowledgeable people in the past what they think, but never the forum, so here goes:

While using the ANZ pits (which are a copy of ‘out of the box’ C3D structures) I’m losing the ability to show the top of the structure floor, as shown in the screen captures below.

Notice the grip is still at the correct height of the floor, its just that that floor line is missing:

 

And zoomed in:

 

As one work around, I’ve tried using a customised block (which would be my preferred option anyway, cause I can have different presentations for GP, JP etc.)

But, doing so I’ve come across a different problem when the structures won’t scale correctly in the vertical axis (i.e the grip is not ‘locked’ to the top of my structure):

 

And zoomed in:

Another work around is to introduce a ‘0’ floor thickness in the parts builder, which would only show one line at the invert level with no floor. But this option would create inaccurate 3d structures.

So….

I’m not sure whether you can solve this one but it’s worth a shot.

Regards,

David

[Mike.M.Carlson]

Hi David-

Unfortunately there’s no wiggle room for showing the floor on the stock structures in profile view, but that would be a great idea you should post to Ideas page.

I assume your custom block has its insertion point at the rim?  Do they exaggerate correctly on 1:1 profile views by any chance?

[gros33]

Hi Michael,
Thanks for taking the time to reply, and for the advice. I'll post the idea soon.
Yes, the blocks all have the rim as the insertion point, and they dont exaggerate correctly even on a 1:1 profile, but obviously it's less noticeable. The bigger the exaggeration the bigger the descripancy.

[BushW]

Hello @gros33

I'm just checking in to see if you need more help with this. Did the reply of @Mike.M.Carlson provide work for you?

Please hit the ‘Accept as Solution’ button if/when relevant so, that others can more easily benefit from the information and thank you for doing so. 

Best Regards,

Wendell

[gros33]

Hi @BushW

Unfortunately it's not resolved yet.

As mentioned above in my initial reporting, there are two different problems with pit Structures and Profile View.

The first is with the stock out of the box structures, which do not show the floor line. and following Mike's advice, I did suggest this as a 'new' idea (although I'm sure many other good people noticed this flaw and just gave up, or worst, changed their structures in IPE to eliminated the floor thickness...).

The second (and my preferred option) is the inaccurate vertical stretching of custom blocks (as shown in the screenshots above).

So it's still an ongoing issue.

Regards,

David

[MMcCall402]

When using blocks for structures in profile or section views, make sure the block isn't set to only scale uniformly.  The insertion point for the block needs to be at the top center of the linework.

Setting the floor thickness to 0 in partbuilder may give you an odd result as the slope of a pipe leaving a structure (out flow), starting from the center of a structure may be slightly below the floor of the structure at the structure wall.

[gros33]

ok small correction;

@MMcCall402 yes all blocks are not set to scale uniformly.

@Mike.M.Carlson all pits use the sump as the insertion point in the block definitions and in the structure style. That is why the bottom of all pits looks correct and the grip is right where it should be at the centre of the floor.

Changing this method around and using the rim, i.e, the top of the block produces an accurate  result at the top, with the grip nicely aligned at the centre of the rim, BUT... now the bottom is not accurate.

Which brings me to the conclusion that it can't be done, and the Autodesk people understood that a while ago, and that's why they left the floor line out.

Because we'll always have pits at different depths, and the pits are basically stretched as a whole according to the depths of the pit, the floor will end up having different thicknesses all the time. 

Did anyone ever have success using custom blocks in profile views?

How does everyone else use it?

Regards,

David

[BushW]

Hello @gros33

---

@MMcCall402 wrote:

When using blocks for structures in profile or section views, make sure the block isn't set to only scale uniformly.  The insertion point for the block needs to be at the top center of the linework. 

---

Thanks for replying back. I think your solution here might be a creating a dynamic block that has parameters and constraints applied to it to be able to do what you want. @MMcCall402 also makes a good point making sure the block isn't set to only scale uniformly. Dynamic blocks can be used many different ways. Check out this YouTube Video on how dynamic blocks are created and used in this example. I hope this helps.

Please select the ‘Accept as Solution’ button if my post solves your issue or answers your question so, other Community members may benefit.

Best Regards,

Wendell

[gros33]

Thanks @BushW,

I'm afraid I've already tried the dynamic block approach but to no avail....

C3D ignores all dynamic functions inside the block, and just stretches it 'as is' from top to bottom according to the structure depth. Which creates the wrong floor thickness....

I guess the Autodesk guys need to include a tick box in the style saying 'draw a floor line where the invert grip is'....

[BushW]

Hello @gros33

---

gros33 wrote: 

I guess the Autodesk guys need to include a tick box in the style saying 'draw a floor line where the invert grip is'.... 

---

You are more than welcome to contact the product team directly. If you have additional comments specific to the software or its functionality for future consideration, please use the Product Feedback page. How to provide feedback on Autodesk products goes into more detail.

Another great option is to participate in the AutoCAD Civil 3D Futures Portal. It is an opportunity for our customers to partner with the development team to improve future releases AutoCAD Civil 3D by giving continuous feedback on ideas, designs, and early builds. To get involved email  beta.autodesk.com and you can also post this suggestion on IDEAS page so, we can vote it up. I hope this information is helpful and please click on the ‘Accept as Solution’ button if/when relevant so, that others can more easily benefit from the knowledge. 

Best Regards,

Wendell

[gros33]

I'm sorry but this is not even remotely near a 'solution'....
I don't know why someone accepted it as a solution, but I sense it's the forum admins trying as hard as they can to keep 'open' problems to a minimum. But that a different problem. Maybe some smart admin would like to jump in and suggest I put that as an idea in the idea forum, and then mark his comment as a 'solution'?....

[BushW]

Hello @gros33

The solution has been unmarked so, the conversation can continue with the hope of finding a solution to your issue.

However, I wanted to point out that you can also click on the ‘Accept as Solution’ button when relevant so, that others can more easily benefit from the information. 

Best Regards,
Wendell

[gros33 · Accepted solution]

OK so...

I've been a bit busy to report back, but I've came up with a work around to my little presentation problem, and it goes like this:

Using a similar approach to what @andrew_milford at 'From The Ground Up' offered as a work around for our little Aussie problem of showing 'Depth to Invert' (more about it HERE), I've used Labels to overcome the software's limitation.

It's basically a Structure Label Style using a few Expressions and a block.

Firstly, the Profile Label Default Placement needs to be at the Bottom of Structure:

Then, create a block with your floor line. (just a single Polyline set to 'by layer').

Add a new expression in 'Label Styles'. call it 'Floor Line Width'. use the expression "{Inner Structure Width}/{Drawing Scale Conversion}".

Add another one called 'Floor Line Height (No Exaggeration)' using the expression "{Floor Thickness}/{Drawing Scale Conversion}".

Add another one called 'Floor Line Height (x5 Exaggeration)' using the expression "{Floor Thickness}/{Drawing Scale Conversion}*5".

Add another one called 'Floor Line Height (x10 Exaggeration)' using the expression "{Floor Thickness}/{Drawing Scale Conversion}*10".

Now create a Structure Style for the first scenario of 'No vertical exaggeration'. In the Layout tab add a 'block' component. in 'block name'use you 'floor' block. 

For 'block height' use your 'floor Line Width' expression.

For the Y offset use your "Floor Line Height (No Exaggeration)" expression:

Repeat the style creation step for the different vertical exaggeration scenarios, and change Y offset to the corresponding Floor Line Height expression.

Now all that's left is labeling your structure with the right exaggeration style, and the floor line will magically appear....

That's pretty much it.

again, this is a work around and I'd like to see it as part of the software and not an extra step. But i'm glad I finally found some solution cause this has bugged me for a while.

Cheers,

David