Can't Transform Objects in NSRS11

[Pointdump]

Playing with Low Distortion Projections in Civil 3D 2016. I made one Map Projection with a Reference Frame of NAD83. I Duplicated it and Edited ONLY the Reference Frame to NSRS11.

In my drawings with the NAD83 LDP, I'm able to Attach and Query other drawings, and use Bing Live Maps without any problem whatsoever.

But in my drawings with the NSRS11 LDP, Transformation is wonky. I can transform objects from the NAD83 LDP drawing OK, but when I attempt to Attach a drawing in Can27-Ont16 or LL83 to the NSRS11 LDP drawing, I get this:

If I "Clear Messages" and go ahead and Attach and Query a drawing in Can27-Ont16 my objects land about 500 miles North of where they ought to be. And Bing Live Maps won't work at all with any NSRS11 drawing I've tried. In the command line I get, "_geomap No geographic location defined".

Dave

[diane.cloutier]

Hi Dave,

Do you have a .dwg with the CS you created that you can post here for our testing?

Thanks!

[Pointdump]

Thanks Diane. Forum isn't allowing me to post my drawing. File size is too large. I'll have to winnow it down or figure out how to use 360 or DropBox.

Dave

[Pointdump]

Diane,

I had two other drawings to further complicate things, but these two will suffice to show the problem. I think.

Step 1. Open Alabama TriCounty2016_NSRS11.dwg. Notice that the assigned coordinate system is a Custom Projection in the NSRS11 Datum.
Step 2. Attach US-StatePlanes-LL83.dwg. Query "Location:All". Draw and Detach. Not only has the first drawing failed to transform Drawing 2, but also, Bing Live Maps refuses to work.

Every way I've tried to use NSRS11 has failed.

Dave

[diane.cloutier]

Thanks, Dave!  I will take a look and see what I find.

Thanks,

[diane.cloutier]

Hi Dave,

Thanks again for posting the files.  I am not able to get the US-StatePlanes-LL83.dwg drawing to transform to your custom coordinate system either (although I am not getting an error message as you are).  Can you post a drawing with the custom coordinate system that IS working (with NAD83 datum) for further testing?

Thanks!

[Pointdump]

Hi Diane,

OK, here's three drawings. The drawing named "NAD83LDP-TriCounty.dwg" is a custom projection. Attaching "AL83-WF.dwg" and then querying "Location:All" works. And Attaching "AL_Counties_Can27-ONT16.dwg" and then querying "Location:All" works. Bing Live Maps plunks down in the right spot. But, strangely, I don't see the GeoMarker anywhere.

Dave

[diane.cloutier]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for posting those files.  I am getting the same results as you.  

It looks like there are some issues with the NSRS11 transformation,.  My guess is this is related to the issue posted by you here: 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-map-3d-general/fatal-error-viewing-nsrs-in-cs-library/m-p/5686...

I am doing some further investigating and will keep this thread updated with my findings.

Thanks!

[Pointdump]

Thank you Diane.

Dave

[diane.cloutier · Accepted solution]

Hi Dave,

I received the following explanation and solution from one of our developers:

For the NSRS 2007 and 2011 datum’s there is no direct geodetic transformation nor a geodetic path to WGS84 datum specified. Unfortunately this limits Map 3D 2016 to use the coordinate reference system on the NSRS datum’s in an expected manner. To fix this problem, create the missing geodetic paths as user defined. Attached the definitions.

1. Command: MAPCSLIBRARYIMPORT
2. Select file “Autodesk 2016 products NSRS 2007_11 GeodeticPath_Temp.xml”
3. All definitions: yes
4. Restart application

Hint: Use MAPTRACKCS to test the coordinate transformations.

I tested this out and it worked for me.  Please let me know if it works for you.  

Also, I am trying to find out if this will be added to the out-of-the-box program.in the future.

Thanks!

[Pointdump]

Hi Diane,

It didn't work. I get this:

Dave

[Pointdump]

Diane,

OK, I think I see something. After testing by attaching several drawings to my custom projection in NSRS11, my only failure is trying to attach "US-StatePlanes-LL83.dwg", a drawing in LL83 Geographic Coordinate System. So transformations work now for Projected Coordinate Systems, and Bing Live Maps comes in the right spot.

The new definitions loaded fine:

What does "Transformation Inversed" mean, and why does "NAD83 to WGS84" say No?

Dave

[Pointdump]

Diane,

Is it possible to add NSRS11 and these Geodetic Paths to the 2014 version of C3D?

Dave

[diane.cloutier]

Hi Dave,

That is great news!  "Transformation Inversed" means that the transformation works from the target datum to the source datum as well as the source datum to the target datum.  My guess as to why "NAD83 to WGS84" says No is that because there are transformations and/or paths from:

NSRS07 to/from NSRS11

NSRS11 to/from NAD83 HARN

NAD83 HARN to/from NAD83

and NAD83 HARN to/from WGS84,

so a path from WGS84 to NAD83 is not needed.  

I hope that makes sense!

For your other question about adding NSRS11 and the Geodetic Paths to C3D 2014, would you mind starting a new thread about that (just to keep things organized and on topic) and I will look into it for you?

Thanks,

[AllenJessup]

---

@Pointdump wrote:

Is it possible to add NSRS11 and these Geodetic Paths to the 2014 version of C3D?

---

Dave,

Why don't you add that to the Idea Station?

Allen

[diane.cloutier]

To answer your question about adding NSRS11 and the Geodetic Paths to C3D 2014, I actually have a quick answer, which is no.

I was thinking you could use MAPCSLIBRARYIMPORT to import the NSRS11 datum, but MAPCSLIBRARYIMPORT is for USER-DEFINED cooridinate information only.

I like Allen's idea of adding it to the IdeaStation though!

Thanks,

[Pointdump]

Thank you Diane. I thought I'd ask.

Allen, I think I'll go there now and post something on the IdeaStation.

Dave

[akstrum]

Is this possible in C3D 2015?

I need to generate a custom coordinate system built from NSRS 2007 . . .

[Pointdump]

J,

Sorry, I don't think so. In the thread Diane says you can't add NSRS11 to 2014, so I assume the same would hold true for adding NSRS 2007 to 2015. A good reason to upgrade to 2016.

Dave

[akstrum]

A crying shame! Thanks for the input . . .