C3D 2018 Create Point Cloud no longer supported?

[Neilw_05]

It appears we can no longer create Point Clouds within Civil 3D as of 2018 release. The workflow now is to use Recap to create the cloud and then attach it to C3D. I tried to create a Point Cloud in Recap using the 3 Elevation formats available from the National Map (Grid, Float and IMG). None of these formats are supported in Recap. So what is the workflow to get the elevation data sets into C3D? I know we can add a grid file to a surface in C3D but we need to filter the data first to make the resulting surface usable. 

[ramesh_sridharan]

Steven,

Older version point cloud tools had some severe limitations especially when it comes to large and/or high resolution point clouds for surface generation in Civil3D. Hence we added new lidar engine with better feature extraction tools that can generate the terrain generation, breakline generation and ex-topo features in Infraworks (and take it to C3D) that will help the task you are looking for. Here is the recent webcast that goes over the workflow as well as multiple options to bring in light weight information content in C3D for design. Please feel free to contact me directly if you need any additional information.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

So I don't get it...what's the point of being able to have the ability to edit the coordinate system outside of during import if it won't actually work? It seems like a trap, because that's exactly the problem my co-worker and I ran into.

But now that we got that sorted out I have been trying to get a recap file to come into C3D if only for the sole fact that I feel like I'll need to know how to explain it to anyone asking down the road. We have a project where we did our 2017 hack. I have been trying to get a recap file to dump in the same place so that I know I'm doing it right and that I know how to do it in the future, but no matter what I do it never drops in the right place.

I feel like I have the workflow right. I import my LAS file into Recap. I tell it it's in the UTM83-15 (UTM with NAD83 datum, Zone 15, Meter) and that I want it to be in Iowa Regional Coordinate System Zone 8. I import and Index the scan. I tell it to display in feet instead of meters (cause 'merica). I have even found the rough same spot in the CAD file with the Recap file and I can see the coordinates are the same. So at this point I have a CAD file and a Recap file and they show in the exact same spot. Everything should be good, I should attach my Recap file, not specify an insertion point, and be done with it as far as I'm concerned. Except that's not what's happening.

As far as I'm aware Recap files are locked in meters format. The only thing I'm doing when I tell it to show me feet is changing the display, and that's why whenever I import the file in through the point cloud attach tool it drops it way off base. I finally realized after a few imports that it was dropping it in a meters fashion, the coordinates my cloud ended up in was basically divided by 3.2808.

I have been playing with insunits and drawing settings to no avail. It's extremely frustrating and it's really blowing my mind because I would like to think some combination of what I've been trying would have worked by now and cause me to have an epiphany of what I had been doing wrong, and I feel like I'm actually running out of combinations to try.

[wfberry]

Just reading this particular page.  Perhaps this command might be of some help:  AECDWGSETUP

Bill

[ramesh_sridharan]

Connor,

Your workflow seems right and it should fall in right place. I have personally done that before without any issue. Sometime as a user I open metric version for imperial data and vice versa but when I do it right it works as it should.

If you want your point cloud data to be in feet, you can specify desired coordinates (in ReCap) in "Target Coordinate System" to feet and you should be good as well. After this, once I setup my drawing coordinate system, attaching RCP file of point cloud it always falls to right place.

If you have the data that seems not working and it is sharable, I will be happy to take a look to move forward.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

So my question is if RECAP is part of my Infrastructure Design Suite that I own, how do I use it for point clouds when my license is not recognized?

Thank you,

[ramesh_sridharan]

Steven,

Obviously, it should recognize the license if everything setup right. One would need more information, take a look at your configuration and license installations to answer the license access issue. It would be good to contact your reseller to address this issue. If you still have this issue, please email me and I will try to find the right person to address this issue from technical perspective to make sure you are up and running one way or the other.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Not sure what to look at.  The software installed on my machine and when
I go to activate Recap like I do all the other products in the
Infrastructure Design Suite the license is not valid.  I am running
windows 7 and the software installed itself with no selection by me. 
The old style I could find what was and where but the new just does it
and changes when it wants.

[ramesh_sridharan]

Steven,

Did you purchase and install it by yourself or you have a reseller involved in this? I am not the right person to support you on this but if you can email me I can try to find the right person. You should probably contact your reseller or autodesk customer support to take care of this situation.

Thanks.

[tcorey]

Wow, this thread has moved off its original track. You would get better exposure for your question if you started a new thread, but...

When you get the error, does it give you a chance to Change license type? Inside that is a place to update the serial number. Does it already show the same serial as IDSP? If not, update to that serial number.

Tim

[Anonymous]

Your right is is far afield.  The loss of the point cloud in Civil3d to now use Rcap that is not now available to all installed civil3d is off the chain of the concept that the function was not lost but just changed.  This is more that chain of issues like drawing that blot (2017) and parcel with no data being automatically created that they don't know why. Just quality.

[ramesh_sridharan]

Stephen,

For the purpose of this chain of using point cloud data, you do not need the licensed version of Recap. Even the free recap version will create RCS format and you can use it without any activation. It is only ReCap Pro functionalities that need license. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks I am in the process of uninstalling so that I might be able to get to use the free version of Recap.  I have no option except to use the Recap Pro that was installed from my flash drive.  That is likely my big issue, had this a few years back (about 10) on a different product that would not let me use the free version once a trial for the upgrade was tried.

[Anonymous]

A request to bring this command back to Civil 3D has been posted to the Autodesk Civil 3D Ideastation.  You can vote for it to increase its chances of being included in a future release or update/hotfix for the product.

Search for "Bring back the CREATEPOINTCLOUD command in Civil 3D" to find it and vote.

Thanks

[ksorsby]

So I'm back on a number of projects where we are using lots of Lidar data and I'm finding there is no Import Point Cloud Functionality in C3D 2018. I can only bring it in as a DEM in surface definitions. However, the datasets are so massive the models become unusable (you can't even hover the cursor over the surface as it instantly hangs). In <2017 I would simply import it as a point cloud and reduce the data down that way to get a manageable surface.

Through this thread, I've been forced to look at Recap and have found there is no way to import asc data there either despite it being there beforehand (I'm told) and recommended by Autodesk as a workaround.

The asc data we are using is freely available UK data from the EA and sourced through regular providers like Geomatics, Landmark etc. and has been for decades.

Autodesk, are you saying there is now no reasonable way to import and filter asc lidar data into Civil 3D (or Recap)?

If so, this is essentially crippled software. Again.

Kevin

[ramesh_sridharan]

Ksorby,

Recap does support txt or xyz file formats to import point clouds, as shown in screen capture. May be you have to change the file extension to bring it in. You can bring those resulting RCP/RCS files to Civil3D.

Also we have workflow using Infraworks to remove noises and automated features to extract breaklines and extopo features that can be brought in to C3D. Here is the link to a video of that workflow.

Please let me know if you need more information.

Thanks.,

[Anonymous]

Kind of seems that way.

They may have been a little hasty in moving away from something that worked fine, to something that has potential, but adds steps and isn't grown up yet.

You may try the free FugroViewer.  Might get you what you need.

My issue has been classified data.  All of our available data is already classified.  I just want ground.  I don't want to re-classify using other software.  (If I try it in Map it instantly translates everything to UTM no matter what coordinate system I am in.

In your case, you might also be able to use the Point Files option for Surface creation.  I have done this a couple of times, because it was easier than spending hours on Recap etc.

[ramesh_sridharan]

cwitzel,

I am not sure what you mean by spending hours on recap. Compared to bringing large data in C3D to generate terrain, importing in Recap - auto processing in InfraWorks and taking that result directly to C3D is much faster. It also keeps C3D lightweight as well.

Please let me know if something precludes you from this workflow and I will be happy to check it out and make sure it is seamless.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

My data is already Classified.  Why do I want to take it to Recap, then take it to Infraworks, then take it to Civil3d.

With the old way while slow, I was able to continue working.

At the very least Recap should be able to make a Classified RCP.  That is crazy.

I am sure for raw data, the multiple packages solution would be fine.  For me, it just adds a bunch of steps.

[ksorsby]

Hi Ramesh,

But it doesn't support asc files (despite some telling me it used to). The asc file is a common format in the uk (not sure of other places) for lidar and flood risk data. Across the board.

Now, Civil 3D clearly supports this format as it can import it under DEM files. But large asc files become basically unmanageable in the C3D environment as a DEM definition, so the point cloud import was extremely helpful to manage large lidar datasets and generate partial surfaces from.

Yet Recap does not support this format despite touting itself in this regard.

We don't have Infraworks. So since the last version of C3D, you (Autodesk) have removed the (working) point cloud functionality and replaced it with a workflow involving 2 other packages that, I'm sure, a lot of people won't have or use.

I doubt my management will allow me to buy the rather expensive Infraworks with the express purpose of importing point clouds for use in another package that used to import them.

I'm sorry Ramesh, I appreciate your prompt responses but this is shameless by Autodesk.

Thanks,

Kevin

[ksorsby]

Jumping in here, I echo cwitzels comment. I've had an hour trying to get Recap to do something useful (never mind Infraworks which we don't have) and I fail to see how this workflow can be quicker, using 3 memory hungry applications instead of one. I used to be able to bring large point clouds into C3D and deal with them fairly quickly as it pretty much worked.

The gamified interface is particularly unhelpful in my view.

Kevin