Automatically arrange points to conform along straight line

[Anonymous]

Good Morning,

I'm working on a project where I have surveyed in multiple cross-sections along a river channel. Each cross-section is spaced at ~ 50 m intervals. Due to the nature of the survey, it wasn't possible to always survey in a straight line. 

The issue I have is that I have to manually arrange the points along a sample line so I can cut a section view through a surface created by offsetting a 3D polyline as a breakline.

Is there a way I can automate this process further by using the sample line (or similar) as a magnet.....I can drag it along my alignment and any points I move over snap to the line.

I think this is a bit of a longshot but worth asking. I have over 700 cross-sections to do.

Thanks

Surveyed Cross-section to be alignedManual alignmentSample line cutting through surface

[igi_pop]

Hello!

Why would you align it? If you move the surveyed points then the data is not true..

Points can be automaticaly projected to all sections, but as far as I can remember - not moved.

Cheers,

Iggy

[Anonymous]

Hi Iggy,

It's more to have a rough idea of the geometry of the channel. For this project, moving the points to align is acceptable for the requirements. I understand that this is a big red flag for many.... 

Cheers

[igi_pop]

What you seek would likely require a lisp.

So, have a look here. Might give you an idea 🙂

move to line 

Cheers, 

Iggy

[Anonymous]

From the description of the Question asked in that thread, it sounds like what I'm after. Coding, however, is a little beyond me....I might have to continue manually.

Appreciate the suggestion though 🙂

[igi_pop]

No problems!

Good luck.

Iggy

[Joe-Bouza]

In your own words "to have a rough idea of the geometry of the channel" . Why not just build the TIN of the points and sample the surface? that would be a rough idea.

[Anonymous]

Hi Joseph,

That's what I've had to do but it's still a time-consuming process. I should have clarified that "rough idea" relates longitudinally along the channel. It's still important for me to make sure the points are lined up correctly laterally. If I was to just build a TIN from the points as they are, I would still need to breakline them to make sure that the triangulation was correct. 

My method at the moment is:

- Create alignment

- sample lines at 50 m intervals

- move points along sample line (makes a relatively straight cross-section)

- Draw a 3D PL joining all points in cross-section

-  Offset PL by 1 m either side with 0 elevation change

- create TIN from breaklines

Thanks

[andrewofabley]

@Anonymous 

Is this similar to this topic? https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/civil-3d-forum/chainage-of-lots-of-points-along-numerous-lines/m-p/9923213#M439891 

There's some code in there, and I remember writing a routine that did something similar.

As usual, post your data and someone may well help you out.

[AllenJessup]

Draw a best fit line using the cross-section points. Move the points parallel to the line.

[AllenJessup]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hi Joseph,

That's what I've had to do but it's still a time-consuming process.

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To me your process looks more time consuming than creating the surface to begin with. But I'm not working with your data.

If the points are described correctly you could have the lines drawn automatically. Optionally if the points were numbers sequentially along each line. You could draw the breaklines by point # range.

I don't think we understand the need the points to be along the sample lines. But I'd leave the original points alone, create the Surface and then set new points along the Sample Lines with the elevations from the Surface.

Other than that. I think Dynamo would be the way to go. Maybe @samir_rezk or another Dynamo master will chime in.

[Anonymous]

I also would not move the points. You can create breaklines through the as-surveyed points, create a surface, and sample at the stations the points are supposed to be at. In fact you probably won't need breaklines, just create a surface and supplement with breaklines where a TIN line skips a section, if any.

If you want to fake it, do a stepped offset from the breaklines with zero elevation difference and enough horizontally to include the entire sample line. If you're going to draw breaklines I would use 3DPOLYs with running osnap set to Node - they are like feature lines without all the baggage, and are much faster to create.

[essam-salah]

Hi @Anonymous 

you don't have to draw breaklines at each section of points you can create a TINSurface and from surface properites and Definition tab change Max Triangle Length to  70 (or any distance that greater than the interval and less than twice the interval).

[TerryDotson]

This has been added to DotSoft's C3DTools (10.0) under Points > Snap.  Simply select the Cogo Points, pick an alignment and specify a buffer distance tolerance.  All points that within the specified range are snapped perpendicular to the adjacent sample line.

[fcernst]

Proximity breaklines do what you need without moving the Points. Create the surface from the Proximity breaklines and sample at the 50m interval. 

[fcernst]

You don’t want this in your arsenal of excellent tools.. Moving survey shots as the OP proposes is grounds for PLS/PL license revocation, fines and lawsuits. 

[TerryDotson]

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@fcernst wrote:

You don’t want this in your arsenal of excellent tools.. Moving survey shots as the OP proposes is grounds for PLS/PL license revocation, fines and lawsuits. 

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If that's truly the case the entire Civil3D application would not allow movement of CogoPoints after creation.  The move command and all forms of editing would be locked and the user would be told they are not allowed to modify them, period.

I'm not bypassing any locks, either on the point or layer level.  If a point shouldn't be modified I'm assuming the user has locked the points.  All I'm doing is providing an option to automate what the OP is likely to do anyway, except I'm providing a way to do it in a minute versus potentially days of manual PER snaps.

[samir_rezk]

Hi @Anonymous 

Like has been recommended, I also would not want to alter the integrity of your original points (you never know when you might need them!). However as a workaround, you can export them by Station Offset to Point Report to identify the relative location to the parent alignment, then adjust the station values in Excel to the closest known sample line station value, then re-import the file by using the Alignment>ImportFromFile command (this command will locate the points by station offset rather than the typical import by coordinates method).

@AllenJessup thanks for tagging me! unfortunately Dynamo does not read Sample Lines at this time!

Hope this helps,

[fcernst]

You still need to be able to move proposed design points in Civil 3D for design...not ever survey shots though of existing conditions for no defensible reason..other than a documented systematic horizontal datum bust. 

[TerryDotson]

Points created in the Survey Database are locked by default and we can't (and don't attempt to) modify them in their current state.  If anyone finds themselves with points that are locked because of this, don't have the survey database, and feel justified in unlocking them, there is a procedure to do that.  Again not the only way, any end user could export them, erase them, and re-import them.  The only advantage to the procedure is maintaining tweaks.