ASKED 100 TIMES BUT Plot to Two Different Paper Sizes

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

Okay, so, I know this has probably been asked a hundred times but my boss does not believe me. He wants print outs TOO SCALE of a set of drawings. To accomodate the request, I go through the editing stages and save as to create a new drawing and then scale everything to 24x36 and plot. "Drawings are useless if they are not to scale," so, I make sure to have them both setup and scaled properly. Is there anyway AT ALL to be able to have one .dwg with each page as a single layout that prints to scale with a proper scalebar on two different sizes of paper. I believe the answer to this is no but it is impossible to explain this to somebody that does not know how to use the software. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

Okay, so, I know this has probably been asked a hundred times but my boss does not believe me. He wants print outs TOO SCALE of a set of drawings. To accomodate the request, I go through the editing stages and save as to create a new drawing and then scale everything to 24x36 and plot. "Drawings are useless if they are not to scale," so, I make sure to have them both setup and scaled properly. Is there anyway AT ALL to be able to have one .dwg with each page as a single layout that prints to scale with a proper scalebar on two different sizes of paper. I believe the answer to this is no but it is impossible to explain this to somebody that does not know how to use the software. 

[Joe-Bouza]

I hope when you say scaled to file you are referring to zoom scale in a view port and not scaling objects to fit a sheet 

You can make multiple layout tabs with all the paper sizes you like, zoom the view to scale and place the scale bar of you choosing / design  / from layout ribbon

[Joe-Bouza]

I hope when you say scaled to file you are referring to zoom scale in a view port and not scaling objects to fit a sheet 

You can make multiple layout tabs with all the paper sizes you like, zoom the view to scale and place the scale bar of you choosing / design  / from layout ribbon

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I create my review drawings in 11x17 and go through all stages of review until time to stamp. I print the final in 11x17. Then I "save as" the final version of the .dwg and change my layout page size to Arch D, change my viewport scale, swap out my scalebar, verify that my titleblock fields updated to match my viewport, and change my annotative scale on my mtext and leaders. I do not just change what the scale says on the drawings and print double sized. Are you suggesting adding more layouts to a single .dwg? I have tried that and I run into issues with my annotative text scales and some other things. What I have been doing is, in the 24x36 save, is go page by page, change layout size, switch to my arch d title block, change to my larger text style, turn on the "change annotative objects when scale changes button, change viewport scale, and swap out my scale bar. I can usually work through pretty quickly. The problem comes when my boss wants the larger set before I have gotten to this point. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I create my review drawings in 11x17 and go through all stages of review until time to stamp. I print the final in 11x17. Then I "save as" the final version of the .dwg and change my layout page size to Arch D, change my viewport scale, swap out my scalebar, verify that my titleblock fields updated to match my viewport, and change my annotative scale on my mtext and leaders. I do not just change what the scale says on the drawings and print double sized. Are you suggesting adding more layouts to a single .dwg? I have tried that and I run into issues with my annotative text scales and some other things. What I have been doing is, in the 24x36 save, is go page by page, change layout size, switch to my arch d title block, change to my larger text style, turn on the "change annotative objects when scale changes button, change viewport scale, and swap out my scale bar. I can usually work through pretty quickly. The problem comes when my boss wants the larger set before I have gotten to this point. 

[Joe-Bouza]

Yes I am.

as for the annotative text ( not civil3d labels) this is exactly why annotative text has been developed. It take a little care in use and using the visual fidelity to you advantage. That is setting the scale of the annotative you want to see in each.

in MS you can toggle the scales needed and grip edit the position(s) for each independent of the other and on the vport toggle annotative for current scale

[Joe-Bouza]

Yes I am.

as for the annotative text ( not civil3d labels) this is exactly why annotative text has been developed. It take a little care in use and using the visual fidelity to you advantage. That is setting the scale of the annotative you want to see in each.

in MS you can toggle the scales needed and grip edit the position(s) for each independent of the other and on the vport toggle annotative for current scale

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

Is there a way to change the text height on different annotative scales? In my 11x17 I use a smaller text height than I do on my 24x36. I created two different text styles to quickly change as I work through. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

Is there a way to change the text height on different annotative scales? In my 11x17 I use a smaller text height than I do on my 24x36. I created two different text styles to quickly change as I work through. 

[Joe-Bouza]

Not that I am aware of. the Paper space height is what controls the Visual fidelity you would need duplicated which is counterintuitive Why do you like two different paper space size? There must be a compromise somewhere

[Joe-Bouza]

Not that I am aware of. the Paper space height is what controls the Visual fidelity you would need duplicated which is counterintuitive Why do you like two different paper space size? There must be a compromise somewhere

[MMcCall402 · Accepted solution]

The only time I've come across anything close to this was an agency that wanted to be able to have a full size set of plans and a half size set.  For that they requested the full size on 22x34 sheets.  We printed full size to PDFs and then printed those as needed to either full size 22x34 or the half size to 11x17.

Your situation is a little different.  You would need two sets of page layouts, either in the same drawing file or a separate file.  The amount of available space would also be a little different when scaling from one sheet size to the other.  Civil 3D labels would be an issue on the smaller sheets.  You would need to sort of trick it by editing the model to paper space (Plot Scale)  by editing it from the normal 1" = 1 unit to 1"=2.

Seems like a bunch of needless extra effort to me.

[MMcCall402 · Accepted solution]

The only time I've come across anything close to this was an agency that wanted to be able to have a full size set of plans and a half size set.  For that they requested the full size on 22x34 sheets.  We printed full size to PDFs and then printed those as needed to either full size 22x34 or the half size to 11x17.

Your situation is a little different.  You would need two sets of page layouts, either in the same drawing file or a separate file.  The amount of available space would also be a little different when scaling from one sheet size to the other.  Civil 3D labels would be an issue on the smaller sheets.  You would need to sort of trick it by editing the model to paper space (Plot Scale)  by editing it from the normal 1" = 1 unit to 1"=2.

Seems like a bunch of needless extra effort to me.

[pendean · Accepted solution]

Boss does not lik your 11x17 print-job. But the 24x36 output is to scale as requested by and totally satisfying the bosses needs.

Is that above the basics of the issue? yes or no please, no "but" 🙂

If yes... then your 11x17 also need to be to scale too, not a random make-24x36sheet-squeeze-down-to-an-11x17 type of printing you are offering, which appears to be what the bosses are telling you are unacceptable.
Than means you need a completely separate fits-on-an-11x17-paper plot/pagesetup to use that outputs to exactly 1/2 scale (or 1/3 or whatever the bosses want), this it's own filled out titleblock, scales entries and so much more.

Sit down with the bosses and my reply above and see if that is their intent. I suspect it is.

Best of luck.

[pendean · Accepted solution]

Boss does not lik your 11x17 print-job. But the 24x36 output is to scale as requested by and totally satisfying the bosses needs.

Is that above the basics of the issue? yes or no please, no "but" 🙂

If yes... then your 11x17 also need to be to scale too, not a random make-24x36sheet-squeeze-down-to-an-11x17 type of printing you are offering, which appears to be what the bosses are telling you are unacceptable.
Than means you need a completely separate fits-on-an-11x17-paper plot/pagesetup to use that outputs to exactly 1/2 scale (or 1/3 or whatever the bosses want), this it's own filled out titleblock, scales entries and so much more.

Sit down with the bosses and my reply above and see if that is their intent. I suspect it is.

Best of luck.

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

No, my output is correct. I setup both my 11x17 and 24x36 to scale in every way. Boss is happy with the outputs but he thinks that any one layout can print as both 11x17 & 24x36 to scale with the press of a button. Similar to printing from Word. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

No, my output is correct. I setup both my 11x17 and 24x36 to scale in every way. Boss is happy with the outputs but he thinks that any one layout can print as both 11x17 & 24x36 to scale with the press of a button. Similar to printing from Word. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

Yeah, this is what I am doing. Basically, he wants to be able to take 11x17 drafts with him to visit clients but have 24x36 AND 11x17 for finals. In random situations, like this morning, he wanted to send a copy of both sizes of the drafts out. Not only was my deadline changed from next Tuesday to today but he added the 24x36. When I told him that I needed an hour or so to properly set up the 24x36, he said "I still think that CAD can print them both out with a command but you don't know it." 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

Yeah, this is what I am doing. Basically, he wants to be able to take 11x17 drafts with him to visit clients but have 24x36 AND 11x17 for finals. In random situations, like this morning, he wanted to send a copy of both sizes of the drafts out. Not only was my deadline changed from next Tuesday to today but he added the 24x36. When I told him that I needed an hour or so to properly set up the 24x36, he said "I still think that CAD can print them both out with a command but you don't know it." 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I am not sure that I am following. My current method is to set my page layout to the paper size that I intend to print to. I set my 11x17 layouts to tabloid/ 11x17 and my 24x36 to Arch D for my plotter. I have title blocks for both. Am I doing this wrong?

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I am not sure that I am following. My current method is to set my page layout to the paper size that I intend to print to. I set my 11x17 layouts to tabloid/ 11x17 and my 24x36 to Arch D for my plotter. I have title blocks for both. Am I doing this wrong?

[pendean]

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@jfetzerP2ZR9 wrote:

...but he thinks that any one layout can print as both 11x17 & 24x36 to scale with the press of a button....

---

are you sure? I only see your side of it all, but that makes no sense for a logical person that understands the different in page sizes. One of you have the wrong end of the problem. The fix is not going to be over here with us sadly.

[pendean]

---

@jfetzerP2ZR9 wrote:

...but he thinks that any one layout can print as both 11x17 & 24x36 to scale with the press of a button....

---

are you sure? I only see your side of it all, but that makes no sense for a logical person that understands the different in page sizes. One of you have the wrong end of the problem. The fix is not going to be over here with us sadly.

[Joe-Bouza]

Sounds like you are doing it the way I describe. sounds like you issue is more with managing the anno text for each scale.

aside from the anno text you can create page setups for each so you can publish more than one at a time

[Joe-Bouza]

Sounds like you are doing it the way I describe. sounds like you issue is more with managing the anno text for each scale.

aside from the anno text you can create page setups for each so you can publish more than one at a time

[Joe-Bouza · Accepted solution]

not with out clipping the 24 x36.

[11x17] x2 = 22x34

[24x36]/2= 12x18

I'm sure he know that . You guys want to bite the bullet and go with 22x34 TB and plot 1/2 when you want  11x17 and go get a beer

[Joe-Bouza · Accepted solution]

not with out clipping the 24 x36.

[11x17] x2 = 22x34

[24x36]/2= 12x18

I'm sure he know that . You guys want to bite the bullet and go with 22x34 TB and plot 1/2 when you want  11x17 and go get a beer

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

It’s not that he doesn’t understand page sizes, it’s that he doesn’t understand how viewports and layouts work as a non-cad user. I really appreciate the help, your posts in this forum have helped me numerous times over the years and I am very grateful. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

It’s not that he doesn’t understand page sizes, it’s that he doesn’t understand how viewports and layouts work as a non-cad user. I really appreciate the help, your posts in this forum have helped me numerous times over the years and I am very grateful. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I’ll look at setting things up for 22x34. I really appreciate your help. Your posts have helped me more over the past few years than you know. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I’ll look at setting things up for 22x34. I really appreciate your help. Your posts have helped me more over the past few years than you know. 

[Neilw_05 · Accepted solution]

The real problem with plotting at 2 different scales is the labeling conflicts. You can create a nice layout at 24x36 with all the labels placed just so, no overlaps. Then if you change the page size to 11x17, all those labels have to scale up to be proper size to the plotted sheet. They will then cross over each other due to the reduced space. With plain Autocad annotations you can manually adjust all the label positions to suit the annotation scale (if you can make them all fit), but Civil 3D labels do not work with annotation scale, meaning the labels cannot have multiple locations based on the annotation scale. They simply scale up or down relative to their placement. The only way you can have 2 properly scaled plot sizes is to have separate dwgs.

We do have page setups that can output the layouts to different page sizes, but the annotations do not rescale to suit the page size. Thus a 24x36 sheet plotted to 11x17 will have the annotations scaled down accordingly. This does not account for the fact that a 24x36 sheet does not scale to an 11x17 sheet at a nominal proportion. That was addressed earlier.

[Neilw_05 · Accepted solution]

The real problem with plotting at 2 different scales is the labeling conflicts. You can create a nice layout at 24x36 with all the labels placed just so, no overlaps. Then if you change the page size to 11x17, all those labels have to scale up to be proper size to the plotted sheet. They will then cross over each other due to the reduced space. With plain Autocad annotations you can manually adjust all the label positions to suit the annotation scale (if you can make them all fit), but Civil 3D labels do not work with annotation scale, meaning the labels cannot have multiple locations based on the annotation scale. They simply scale up or down relative to their placement. The only way you can have 2 properly scaled plot sizes is to have separate dwgs.

We do have page setups that can output the layouts to different page sizes, but the annotations do not rescale to suit the page size. Thus a 24x36 sheet plotted to 11x17 will have the annotations scaled down accordingly. This does not account for the fact that a 24x36 sheet does not scale to an 11x17 sheet at a nominal proportion. That was addressed earlier.

[Joe-Bouza]

@jfetzerP2ZR9 Nice of you to say 😊

Happy to help

[Joe-Bouza]

@jfetzerP2ZR9 Nice of you to say 😊

Happy to help

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I hope that it is okay that marked multiple replies as a solution because I do not believe that any of the replies are wrong. 

[jfetzerP2ZR9]

I hope that it is okay that marked multiple replies as a solution because I do not believe that any of the replies are wrong. 

[Joe-Bouza]

You Did good

[Joe-Bouza]

You Did good