Linking Cloud Workshared models in BIM 360 Design

[markus_briglmeir]

When cloud worksharing with BIM 360 Team (the thing done historically with the C4R product), the only option for linking between cloud workshared models was to link to the "live" version of those models.  Within a single team, that's often desired, but across multi-discipline, multi-company teams, it's been highly desired to be able to control what version of a cloud workshared model is linked by other disciplines.  With cloud worksharing in next gen BIM 360, we've added more flexibility to how models can be links as part of the new "controlled worksharing" workflow to project teams.

Controlled Sharing

This example demonstrates the Design Collaboration workflow where teams fully control the versions of other team's models that are linked.  This is consistent with how many multi-discipline, multi-firm teams have historically worked.

• Team B controls which versions they share.
• Team A controls which versions they consume.

 

1. Team B shares Package 1 with the other Teams on the Project. That Package contains versions of the model, along with 2D Sheets and 3D Views in the included Sets, that Team B would like other teams to use. The result of sharing that Package is the copying of that model version, along with 2D Sheets and 3D Views in the included Sets, into the Shared folder on the Project.
2. Team A reviews the contents of Team B's Package 1. When ready, they consume that Package. The result of this operation is a copy of the model version in the Package 1, along with 2D Sheets and 3D Views in the included Sets, into the Consumed folder contained into their team space.
3. As this is the first time this model has been shared, Team A creates a link in Revit that points to the version contained in the Consumed folder in their Team Space. Team A now can work in their data in context of the latest shared version of Team B.
4. Team B progresses their work, and wants to share updated data with the other Teams on the Project. They create Package 2, and select the desired Sets (3D Views and 2D Sheets) and Model to be included. They share that Package with the rest of the Teams on the Project, which results in an updated version of data contained in the Shared folder.
5. Team A reviews the contents of Team B's Package 2, using change visualization to understand the model updates. When ready, they consume Package 2. The result of this operation is a copy of the model version(s) in the Package, along with 2D Sheets and 3D Views in the included Sets, into the Consumed folder contained into their team space.
6. The version of the model linked into Team A's architectural model has now been updated, so the new model state is available to the team the next time the link is loaded.

Live Linking

This example is when the team wants to link to the "live" version of another model.  Historically, this was the only way to work when cloud worksharing with BIM 360 Team, and it remains part of cloud worksharing in next gen BIM 360.

1. Team A has "View" permission on Team B, and thus has access to the Folder that contains the "live" version of the cloud workshared model.  View permissions prevent Team A from editing Team B's model.
2. Team A links to the model in Team B's working folder.
3. Any time Revit loads this link, it will load the latest version.
4. No sharing or consuming is required for model updates in Design Collaboration, but can be used to exchange Sheets, 3D Views, and visually understand changes, between discipline teams.

 If you'd like a more shareable version of these diagrams, use this link.

See as well this  article on AKN (Autodesk Knowledge Network) on model linking. 

We are looking forward to hear your thoughts, ideas and comments. And of course post any questions you have. 

[KyleB_Autodesk]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Marcus,

Great visuals by the way (should incorporate into the Quick Start guide!) They demystify a lot of the functionality in how packages distribute their data in BIM 360 Docs when using "Controlled Sharing." I do need some clarification on "Live Linking" though. Firstly, is BIM 360 Design still hosting the live model in a hidden folder within the BIM 360 project? The reason I ask is in classical C4R and BIM 360 Team, only the "Published Models" were visible in BIM 360 Team and the "Live Models" were visible within Revit. This is evident in Revit when using Manage Models to publish versions to the Team folder of Docs. The versions of the "Published Model" in the Team folder are minimal in quantity as compared to versions of the "Live Model" visible in Manage Models. Secondly, this leads me to believe that "Live Linking" is not truly live. In actuality, it's simply circumventing packages and linking to the latest "Published Model" in another Team's folder.  The term "Live" is a little misleading here. The "Live Model" that the Revit team is working on is not what is in each Team folder or, is it?

I guess my question is, does Manage Links in Revit see the "Live Model" in a hidden folder of the Team folder or, does it see the latest "Published Model" in the Team folder?

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Bill,

I'm glad to clarify this for you.

There are two data locations involved in BIM 360 Design: Revit Cloud Worksharing (RCW) and Next Gen BIM 360.  The latest model versions, as well as all SWC versions in the models' histories, are stored in RCW services, while only published versions are stored in Next Gen BIM 360.  There's a whole other post to articulate the reasons why that is, but let's just keep it at that for now.

Assuming that you are linking in cloud workshared Revit models, RCW services are always the source of the data linked and loaded in Revit.  This is because RCW services provide the best performance.  They only transact in the binary chunks of an RVT, which we call Element Streams, and the Revit Accelerator prefetches new Element Streams as soon as they are available.  The version of the linked model that's loaded, however, depends on the link's path.

Live Linking

In the case of live linking, you create the link pointing to the folder that contains the "live" cloud workshared model that you want to link.  As you mention, if you were to go into Next Gen BIM 360, you'll only see the latest published version of that model, just like how it worked with BIM 360 Team in the past.

When Revit loads the link, it recognizes that it's pointing to the "live" folder location, which triggers the loading of the latest version of the linked model from RCW services, no publishing required.  This is identical to how it worked with cloud worksharing in BIM 360 Team (aka C4R).

Controlled Sharing

In the case of controlled sharing, you create a link pointing to a folder that only contains a copy of a published version of the cloud workshared model you want to link.  Team A triggers a publish -> that version shows up in the "live" folder location in Next Gen BIM 360 -> that version is copied into another folder -> Team B links to that copied version in that other folder.  If you're managing the data exchange with the Design Collaboration module, this could be either the "Shared" folder or the "Consumed" folder.  Technically, you could do it manually using only the Document Management module if you wanted to.

When Revit loads the link, it recognizes that it's pointing to the "stale" folder location, which triggers the loading of the specific version of the linked model in that "stale" folder location.  This is again done with RCW services.

Make sense?

-Kyle

[Anonymous]

Kyle,

Yes, thank you for the descriptive response. We're on the same page! We were just speaking in a different language. I figured as much. It was the "Live Linking" graphic in Marcus's post that threw me off. What I was calling a "hidden folder" is actually RCW. As a technical consultant for a VAR, we often get many questions and cases regarding the verbatim mentioned in BIM 360 services. Ourselves included.  

@Darin.Green, @Mark.Lancaster

[Anonymous]

If you can't see the files in Revit:

1. Check if the folder is properly assign to the team you are a part of. Creating and uploading files in Document Management does not automatically make the files available in Revit.

2. If you did No.1 correctly and still can't see the files in Revit. Check your permissions and team assignments. If you are not a part a Team you can't link directly into their files.

This is not definite solution but I hope it helps you troubleshoot your issue.

Regards,

[Anonymous]

Hi Markus,

It would be a really useful feature if you could set a little approval workflow for consuming models that required all teams to choose to consume before the model got linked to any other disciplines. For example, Structural and MEP would BOTH have to choose to consume an architectural model before it got linked to either discipline's Revit file.

At the moment, if youre linking from the consumed folder, you could be linking a consumed model that another discipline has chosen not to consume, which means different teams could easily be working off different versions of linked files - and this almost defeats the whole point of the collaboration workflow!

Because of this, many projects would currently rather opt to link direcly from the shared folder, although this means there should be an agreement on package contents before sharing, and isn't ideal either.

I've added this to Idea Station: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/bim-360-ideas/idb-p/2032/tab/most-recent

Michael

[Anonymous]

So I am still confused about this. The live linking method is not really live, is it? We still have to publish our model for consultants to see any updates? We are having an issue with getting our consultants on board with this whole process and at one point the consultants were seeing our live updates and now they are no longer seeing those updates until we publish the model. Is this working correctly? Or is there some lag in updating models with the live linking? The way it's all working now, every linking process is sort of the same but the live one just gets rid of a step.

[KyleB_Autodesk]

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@Anonymous wrote:

So I am still confused about this. The live linking method is not really live, is it? We still have to publish our model for consultants to see any updates? We are having an issue with getting our consultants on board with this whole process and at one point the consultants were seeing our live updates and now they are no longer seeing those updates until we publish the model. Is this working correctly? Or is there some lag in updating models with the live linking? The way it's all working now, every linking process is sort of the same but the live one just gets rid of a step.

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It is indeed Live, if your link path points to the source of a Model, and you make that link through the "External References" data space.

From your description, it sounds like that's not the case.  Perhaps you are pathing your link via Desktop Connector, or to a version of the Model that's in another folder?

-Kyle

[Anonymous]

I will have to see if that's the problem. My office is doing everything fine, but the consultants are having problems figuring out this new system. I'll have to have them all send me a screenshot of the 'Manage Links' window

[Anonymous]

I asked this exact question and Kyle Bernhardt from Autodesk responded that “Publishing” is not required with “live-linking” because, Manage Links within Revit recognizes that you are pointing to the “live” model in the RCW (Revit Cloud Worksharing) service and not the current “Version” visible within the Team folder as seen in BIM 360 Docs.

In other words, reload the linked file when you know that changes have occurred. This is similar to classical C4R.

Are you linking via BIM 360 Desktop Connector or the External References place list short-cut in the Import/Link RVT dialog? 

Make sure a member from the linking Team is added to your Team folder with “View” access. Maybe they can’t see your “live” model because, they can’t view your Team folder.

[Anonymous]

Would that be the same as adding an office to our folder with View permissions? I added everyone's office to each folder with View permissions since each team is slowly adding new people 

[KyleB_Autodesk]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Would that be the same as adding an office to our folder with View permissions? I added everyone's office to each folder with View permissions since each team is slowly adding new people 

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Yes, that's a way to accomplish Live Linking across Teams.  If a given Autodesk ID (aka User) has View permissions on a the "source" Folder for a cloud workshared model, then that User can link the latest version of a Cloud Workshared model in that Folder, but they cannot open it directly and make any changes.

-Kyle

[Anonymous]

Just getting into trying out a project on this and this thread has been helpful to start understanding the arrangements.  From an MEP model perspective I'm wondering about the folder permissions.  If the Arch has setup the project and has created folders for other team members to load models to do they have full view and edit permissions over our MEP file?

[chubbard]

Since permissions are inherited from the folder above and the Architect is the admin and created those folders I would think they will have full permissions to that folder. But they can be changed at any time. I would also assume that someone in your team has full control over your folder and they could change the architects permissions on your folder to view only? 

But I assume that the site owner/admin can change any permissions they want. I can since I'm the owner of all my sites. 

[Anonymous]

I was hoping to edit my post and further explain the concern or at least understand a bit better.  As consultants on the team are we essentially placing the file we would be working on behind a gate under someone else's control?  Or, is there some mechanism that defines the ownership from whoever publishes or uploads the file? 

[Anonymous]

Yes! Your are a guest to the architect’s BIM 360 Hub. They host the Project that you’re collaborating in. They decide on who the Project Admins are. In general, Project Admins have unrestricted control permissions to all folders and their contents. Project Members that are given Control permissions to a folder 

have similar admin privileges as it pertains to folder management.

Project Members added to a top-level folder with a given permission level is “inherited” by sub-folders. It’s a trickle-down methodology. Therefore, you can start with View permissions at an upper-level folder and increase permissions in sub-folders or, circumvent a top-level folder altogether by not adding the user, role, or company.

Your Live MEP Model is not accessible within Revit by the other Teams if you are using Controlled Linking because, they would not need to access your Team’s folder in this workflow. They would be linking from either the Shared folder or their Consumed folder. Only your Team can publish sets from your Live Revit Model to your Team’s Design Collaboration workspace and, only your Team can share packages from your Team’s Design Collaboration workspace. 

In Live Linking, your are not utilizing the Design Collaboration module (packages) to share a copy of your model to link to. However, the linking Teams would need at least View permissions to link to your Live MEP Model. Additionally, other Teams cannot open your Live Model in Revit.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

...I wish there was an easy way to know what type of link I'm using in the model since it doesn't note the full Project File folder structure in the Saved Path under the Manage Links in Revit...

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I don't see that this has been answered anywhere in this long thread. I see the inability to know what method was used to link a model is a major shortcoming. 

There are three approaches to model linking:

1. Live Linking

2. Automatic Update (Linking to 'Shared' Folder)

3. Manual Update (Linking to 'Consumed' Folder)

Regardless of the approach taken, once that link has been established there is no way that a user (regardless of permission level) is informed of the selected approach. Are teams just expected to track this on their own in a spreadsheet? Frankly, it's quite embarrassing as I'm bringing new staff into BIM 360 Design almost daily.

This ranks high on the WTF scale, right up there with "...why can't I see anyone in the project unless I'm an admin?" Collaboration in the dark?

[markus_briglmeir]

Hi Jason, 

Thanks for reaching out, these are valid points. 

Showing users information about the model linking is something we are working on right now. The team is validating UI concepts with customers in the next days, let me know if you want to be included in the conversation. 

Regarding you other requirement about showing all project members. We would you expect this information to be shown?

Thanks in advance, 

Markus

[Anonymous]

Markus,

Thanks for the response. I got the same response from a support ticket I created as well. Please invite me to the customer review conversation.

On the visibility of fellow team members in BIM 360 Docs/Design. My main issue is that being a COLLABORATION platform, one would expect to be able to SEE those that they are collaborating with. When we moved from Teams to Docs we lost two big things.

1. Communicator. We had issues with adoption but at least it gave team members insight into team activity. It was replaced with _______________.
2. Fellow Team Members. The interface was not great, but in the Teams we could see who was part of your immediate team as well as extended team. Now, only those with the 'Project Admin' role can see who is part of the team.

Hiding fellow stakeholders is an anti-collaborative move IMHO.

[andybrack]

Markus,

Can you please provide an update on this old thread?  My company has been integrating projects in to Next Gen BIM360 and I sorely miss the old Communicator from BIM360 Team. At the minimum it provided insight into who is working on the model. Our users still use the Worksharing Monitor on LAN based projects as a way to do this.  Any users that have switched to BIM360  have asked about the lack of functionality in BIM360.

Also, the file path to the linked BIM model (whether "live", shared, or consumed) is not represented in the path in the Manage Links dialog box, as far as I can tell.  I'm guessing that will remain as is for now?

Thanks,

Andy Brack

[martyn.messerli]

@Marco.Ramolla Maybe you want to takeover this thread?