Isogen Errors and Fixes

[Anonymous]

Has anyone in the community encountered errors with generating isos in P3D due to the following issues? The model is created and welds and/or gaskets show in the model, there are no tear drops showing issues, but the iso encounters errors when generating either a Quick Iso or a Production Iso. Upon further investigation in checking distances between nodes, it is determined that the X, Y or Z is off less than 1/256" in architectural units or in decimal units, the distance is sometimes .0005 or less. Is there a setting in Isogen or P3D that will allow the iso to not error for less than 1/16"? Has anyone else encountered these issues?

[dbutts7]

Where are you seeing the discrepancy on the distance - in the model, or in the ISO drawing? I'm assuming you're seeing these in the model, but wanted to ask you first.

thanks - David B.

[Anonymous]

We don't start to investigate the issue till the iso is run and ends in errors. When we go back to the model and check nodes for differences in the X, Y and Z, we notice one of the 3 being off less than 1/256" or less than .006 in decimal units. Once the issue is corrected in the model, the iso runs with no errors. Is there a setting in isogen or P3D to adjust the tolerances so that errors in isos do not generate for less than a 1/16"? Having an iso generate errors because there is a discrepancy of .006 in the X, Y or Z is ridiculous especially since the model shows the piping connected to the adjacent fitting and shows in the model a weld, or a gasket for a flange set, etc. and there are no tear drops shown anywhere on the model to indicate any errors.

[dbutts7]

I agree - if you were using the node snaps to make the connections, then you shouldn't receive the errors. Let me check the spec editor settings and project setup - what pipe spec are you using, one of the OOTB libraries or something custom? I had never seen the iso tool do this, that's why I responded. 

We'l figure it out - if not, I can get it posted to the beta development team and registered as a defect. What version of P3D are you running?

thanks - db

[Anonymous]

I am using pipe specs developed solely for this one client, so it is custom. We are running AutoCad P3D 2017.

[dbutts7]

Under your project setup, iso settings - what do you have set as the distance for the weld gaps? These are usually specific to the materials, see this link:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-plant-3d/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/...

thanks - db

[dbutts7]

thanks for the heads up - can you post the spec files to a file sharing site, such as 360.autodesk.com? Put them in a zip file so they can get processed correctly, if you're using the 360 site.

thanks - db

[Anonymous]

Our gaps are set to .125 in the Project Setup for Iso Settings

[Anonymous]

I can, but need to check with the higher ups to ensure approval, looks to be sometime tomorrow as it is now 6:24pm on the east coast and management has gone home.

[dbutts7]

Same here, I’m in NC so I’ll check in tomorrow.

Thanks - db

[jabowabo]

Offset tolerance affects the ability to connect components in the model but for reasons unknown does NOT affect how the iso generation sees connections. Nearest I can tell, the breaking point is real close to 0.000177091". Anything beyond that will cause problems.  Note that I have not tried beyond version 2016.

[dbutts7]

thanks for the heads up on the offset tolerance - where are you setting this, in the spec? I know where the weld gap setting is, but hadn't gotten back into the spec yet. I'm a little rusty on the setting, and I'm sweating out some 4K graphics issues on 2018 right now.

mrellihan - did you find out anything about the spec you are using? Let me know which one it is, if it's out of the box I won't need yours unless you've modified already.

thanks - db

[jabowabo]

Offset tolerance and slope tolerance can be set per joint type in the DefaultConnectorsConfig.xml file in each project.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, but I am not looking for offset and slope tolerance. I am looking to see how to adjust the tolerances in Isogen so that the error rate by Isogen is reduced by not having the tolerances set at such a minute limit. Currently in the model, everything is connected, weld symbols, gaskets all appear and there are no tear drops showing that things are not hooked up or connected properly. When I get into creating isos, I get occasional errors and of course the data log only gives you a code which you have to research to see what that code is instead of having the actual data log tell you the issue. Upon inspection, you find out that either your X, Y or Z axis is off less than 1/256" or .0005 or even lower than that. So I make the adjustments so that the X, Y and Z all read 0.000000000 and then the iso generates.
So I guess I am looking for a tolerance setting so that it can be adjusted to be less severe than erroring out for being less than 1/256" or .0005 or less. I believe that if the tolerances were less severe and could be adjusted so that anything less than being 1/16" or even 1/32" off in the X, Y and Z, less and less headaches would occur. Isogen should be a tool to produce the iso with a BOM based solely on the model generated and if the model is all connected and no tear drops appear, then Isogen shouldn't have issues producing the isos.
Errors in Isogen for P3D because your pipe to elbow or pipe to flange or flange to equipment is off less than 1/256" or .0005 is ridiculous and a waste of valuable manhours on projects.

[dbutts7]

Thanks for the reply - so let's get some other details. What version/build of Plant 3D are you using? If it's a defect, I'll need this so I can get a bug report started. 

The reason for asking for the spec, is that if there is a dimensional anomaly that causes the components to not line up correctly, then Isogen will pick it, regardless of whether the modeler sees a gap there or not. I would just like to rule that out, so let's circle back around to the pipe spec you're using. Is it happening with a single pipe spec, multiple versions or all pipe specs?

thanks - David B.

[dbutts7]

I've also followed up on Jabowabo's response - have you tried to edit the offset values for the DefaultConnectorsConfig.xml file to see if it actually fixes the problem?

Autodesk refers to this in the article in this link:

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-plant-3d/learn-explore/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles...

I've also found this solution:

http://www.pdoteam.com/2015/04/using-tolerances-in-plant-3d-2016/

This is the only place that I can find where you can edit this setting. The tolerance isn't exposed in project setup, but you can edit the XML file with notepad, so I would recommend trying his solution first, and then let's see if it still occurs. 

thanks - David B.

[jabowabo]

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@Anonymous wrote:
So I guess I am looking for a tolerance setting so that it can be adjusted to be less severe than erroring out for being less than 1/256" or .0005 or less. I believe that if the tolerances were less severe and could be adjusted so that anything less than being 1/16" or even 1/32" off in the X, Y and Z, less and less headaches would occur. Isogen should be a tool to produce the iso with a BOM based solely on the model generated and if the model is all connected and no tear drops appear, then Isogen shouldn't have issues producing the isos.
Errors in Isogen for P3D because your pipe to elbow or pipe to flange or flange to equipment is off less than 1/256" or .0005 is ridiculous and a waste of valuable manhours on projects.

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I agree on all points. Unfortunately, I think this is hard-coded as I have tried to find a workaround on this without success. At one point I created a 'force-connect' routine which worked great in the model - it would connect pretty much any two items. But it had no effect on the isometric. Any offsets greater than the value I gave above would not drop on the same page.

[jabowabo]

Also, see Peter Quinn's comment regarding isometrics at the bottom of this page:

http://www.pdoteam.com/2015/04/using-tolerances-in-plant-3d-2016/