Block issue - spontaneous duplication of objects within, after multiple updates

[sreichling]

Let's say I create a block for a building with just a few layers for the building outline, building overhang, and doors. There are no over-lapping objects.

If I close and save the block, and then later on I adjust the block, and continue to do so maybe a few times over the course of a week...at some point I will go in and find that there are duplicates of the block elements (1-7 I think I've seen before). But yet I have not copied these elements in place.

Attached is the .dwg with an early version of a block that is fine and a later version that decided to procreate objects itself.

Notes that may be useful:
-Not a dynamic block
-I often purge and audit all my drawings, including ones that have blocks in which this error occurs
-I'm using 2018 LT currently, but i'm pretty sure I first noticed this problem when we were using 2017 LT.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

[samspade]

 the geometry and the tags all duplicate. then of course the lines don't act right because they haven't been assigned to actions or visibilities because they aren't supposed to exist. 

what settings would I be addressing in the tool palette? I will try whatever you think.

thanks

[samspade]

the issue continues to happen whenever we insert from tool palette or when you insert from the new Insert block palette. the only way, in my experience, to preserve the integrity of the block is to copy/ paste it in. this is just terrible and disheartening. why give us tool palettes if we cannot use them without corrupting our blocks? also, the one block I had made without visibility parameter was likewise corrupted by inserting through the Insert Palette - which discounts my previous hypothesis of the visibility parameter being part of the problem. 

I hope you are just on vacation and haven't given up on me entirely.

thanks

[steven-g]

I'm still not seeing any issue, even exploding the blocks the number of lines in both your drawings is identical, there are no duplicates of anything?

[samspade]

well they were built correctly. it is whenever we pull them in off the tool palette, or even using the Insert palette. did you try that? it is not just me, it is the other user who is trying to use my blocks. I do not believe I did anything wrong, I have been making blocks for 30 years, and I am well versed in many CAD subjects. 

Well, thanks very much for your efforts, I do appreciate the help.

[kvnbrn]

I have been seeing this since 2009. I'm using lt 2020 currently, and i still see it happening. There are other posts if you search for them, you might find something that helps. I build a quick fix into my blocks that make it easy and quick to get rid  of the new objects. I create a visibility called "blank" in each block. I make sure everything is turned off in that visibility. when the duplication happens, all you have to do is go into that blank visibility and delete everything but the visibility parameter and the base point parameter. (the only two things you can't turn off.)  This will save a huge amount of time fixing the block, until they figure out whats doing it. 

[samspade]

thank you for the work around, I suppose I shall have to build a fail safe into my blocks from now on. 2 points:

  1) do you think it happens on insertion from the tool palette/ Insert palette 

 2) has no one from Autodesk tried to fix it? I mean, this is a huge HUGE problem when you are basing workflows off of attributed dynamic blocks

again, thank you for your input!!! maybe 2020 will be the decade they have time to fix this one.

[kvnbrn]

I’ve never noticed that it occurs at insertion. The first time I saw it, I
had just had a fatal error crash. When I re-opened the drawing, there were
multiple cases of this duplication in several blocks. The only way you know
the problem exists is when a parameter doesn’t stretch or move something,
then you see the duplicate. So unless you are paying very close attention,
you don’t see it happen. I have some very detailed blocks that I used to
spend hours trying to fix. The blank visibility allows me to fix it in
seconds.

I can understand how big of an issue it is. As I said, there have been some
conversations on the block forum about this, one of them got very detailed
if I remember correctly. May be worth looking at again and compare your
experiences with them.

[cadffm]

@kvnbrn 

" about this, one of them got very detailed"

Please search with us, which post you mean?

I never read more or detailed information than i know and i like to read the thread you mentioned.

(It's just to hard for me to discuss that in english with people who hasn't the same knowledge)

Thanks in advance for searching and sharing.

[kvnbrn]

Try these

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/dynamic-blocks-forum/double-dupliacted-geometry-in-dynamic-blocks/m-p...

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/dynamic-blocks-forum/images-duplicating-in-dbs-acadlt-2010/m-p/249801...

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/dynamic-blocks-forum/dynamic-block-visibility-bug/m-p/2693500

[eSupport2005]

hi i had this issue now 2 times in the last weeks

i dont use dynamic blocks

i get versions of blocks, before editing and after save/crash sometimes everything is 3 times or more doubled

it started in version 2020 and i have my files an a file server

is there realy no Solution? 

[stevenwalley]

I had the same issues with duplications. I save all my dynamic blocks on a single drawing. Through trial and error, I found that the duplications only occurred if I modified a block when I had other drawings open. If I need to modify or add a block, I save and close all other drawings (remembering to purge and audit each one in turn), shut down AutoCad completely then open the block drawing on its own. Once the changes are complete to the block drawing, I purge, audit, save and close the software. Finally, I re-open the drawing(s) I was originally working on. I don't know if this approach works for other people but it seems pretty reliable for me so far. Fingers crossed!

[TimothyFranks]

This happens to me when I recover a drawing - whether it is through the prompt when opening a file, or by running the 'recover' command.

If I have a Block with a circle in it in a drawing when I open it, then I edit the block to only contain a square, save the file, reopen it, hit "yes" when prompted with the error message, the block will then contain both the square and the circle.

If I hit "no" at the prompt, it will then open the correct file as I left it, albeit with the errors still in the file.

However in the past few months I have run into the issue of my files not opening, so I need to run the recover command, which fixes the errors, but then the blocks will have the duplication, as well as some layers being moved to 'recover' layers. this severely buggers up both my individual drawing layer states and the xref layer states.

[sreichling]

My suspicion was that it had something to do with auditing the drawing.  I am a heavy auditor.  My guess is that during the audit it recalls a previous definition of the block and then "restores" it by stacking it on top of the newest definition.

To me this clearly seems like a programming issue and Autodesk needs to fix it.

[TimothyFranks]

After reading some of the other comments I can also confirm that there are issues happening between separate files, eg:

I set up my xrefs as follows:

Existing Plan -> Floor Plan -> Ceiling Plan

I ran the recover command on the Floor Plan. Along with the duplicate blocks, a bunch of my layers turning into "recovered" layers, and my dimensions going haywire, there were layers frozen in the Viewports of the Floor Plan Layout Tabs, which I had actually frozen in the Viewports of the Layout Tabs in the Ceilings File i.e:

I Freeze the Fire Sprinkler Layers in the Air Conditioning Layout Tab Viewport, and the Air Conditioning Layers in the Fire Sprinkler Layout Tab Viewport - These are both in the Ceiling Plan File.

When I recovered the Floor Plan File, the Air Conditioning & Fire Sprinkler Layers were Frozen in the Viewports of the Floor Plan - And there is no way that these would have been Frozen manually, as the Workflow has the Ceiling Plans at the end, and there isn't any way that they would be Frozen in the Floor Plan File.

I suspect the plot has yet to fully thicken.....

[emge65]

I do have the exactly the same problem with latest AutocCad Version 2022. Worked the first time with more than 150 Blocks and about 30 Dynamic Blocks. Spend hours to repair or clean the dynamic Blocks with the duplicated elements, horrible work and time consuming. AutoCAD should seriously take notice to this issue!

[cadffm]

I found the problem, which is mostly the problem i guess. [Explanation]

I showed AutoDesk exactly and explained what I know, everything else is in the hands of AutoDESK.

And for all users it simply means: ISAVEPERCENT = 0
to avoid future problems with the BEDIT.

(Attention: You can already have the problem in the file, it doesn't have to be visible for this, but I don't want to explain everything in detail again here.
If someone thinks this does not apply to his situation, he is welcome to contact us by PM)

[emge65]

Thanks for this, will go thru all the steps and try to understand.

Regards

Georg Emrich

x2plan Georg Emrich
Glas | Alu | Stahl | Design


M +43 664 88469277

E g.emrich@x2plan.at

Marktplatz 4
A-4810 Gmunden
Austria

[cadffm]

These steps are just to reproduce(!) the problem,

to see the problem.

There is no way to correct them, just the setting to avoid the problem in new files or files without duplicates.

Check your PM in some minutes!

[samspade]

Wow, after 5 years, finally! How certain are you of this fix? Because it is critical.  I correlated it to the use of tool palettes (the only connection I could make) so I had to shut down my palettes and thereby seriously monkey wrench my workflow).

If you are 100% confident, the sun will shine once again upon my ever overcast AutoCAD world! Thank you!

[cadffm]

It is since 15 Years! And i am 100.0% sure! no guessing.

All documented and confirmed by Autodesk Support.

But think about, it is possible that the issue i am talking about is not your issue!

Perhaps you are talking about a different issue, just with the same symptom.

If you are able to reproduce "your problem", send me an PM and we can test it.