Layerstates - How to lock layer states for model space when changing layout layerstates

[peterbrewser]

Hello World, 

This is my first post so any help would be much appreciated! I read these threads a lot so thought it was about time I post.

TLDR: 

• Context:

  • Manually VP freezing layers for each viewport is time-consuming.
  • Editing in model space is preferred for coordination (e.g., lighting with furniture).
  • Changing layer states in one layout may unintentionally affect others.
  • Revisiting layouts for edits can be inefficient.

• Preferred Output and Issues:

  • Create layer states for different drawing types (RCP, floor finishes, room layouts, etc.) DONE
  • Quickly switch between predefined layer states instead of manually freezing layers.
  • Ensure changes in one layout don’t disrupt others.
  • Maintain the ability to edit effectively in model space.

I'm relatively new to using layer states and was wondering if this would be a way to make our office workflow more efficient. Our office has typical drawing sets such as reflected ceiling, floor finishes, room layouts etc. and every time we set up these sheets/ viewports, we have to VP freeze each layer which is time consuming.  I am wondering if we could have a layer state for each of these drawing types (which we have set up roughly at the moment in-line with our layers).

The problem: keeping the other layouts/ model space locked when you are changing the layers states on other layouts, especially when we have to come back to edit these later. An issue that I am coming across is that when I change the layer state to our reflected ceiling plan layer state, the layer state also appears to change in the model space, is there a way for these to remain separate? We also would like to edit in the model space rather than editing in layout (for instance: if we have to arrange lighting, it has to be in coordination with furniture, so editing in just the reflected ceiling plan wouldn't work). 

Process:

• I'm in the model space
• Switch to the layout (Reflected ceiling plan)
• Click the drawing viewport to activate the drawing
• Change Layerstate to Reflected ceiling plan (with desired output)
• Switch to Model Space
• Layer appear differently (line that appear black should be yellow, red, orange etc.) 

Any help would be much appreciated and if you need any further information, please let me know and I'll respond as soon as I can. It's also helpful if I know there isn't a way to do this in AutoCAD or if there is another process that might be the solution (potentially barking up the wrong tree). 

Thanks,

Peter

[jskalaXDDX5]

Layer States seem to work independently for me, changing States in Model Space does not seem to affect my Layouts, and changing the State of one Layout does not seem to affect the State of other Layouts…

So, if I understand what you want to do, I think it can be done.  I think maybe the trick might to be to stay in Model Space and leave the Layout States as they are?

[jskalaXDDX5]

Another thought…I use Layer States a lot, but I have few (about ten) Layers in my drawings.

Even with that small amount, I have run into issues when the settings of one Layer State are not consistent with another…changing Layer States removes Layers, etc.

I also am not using Layer States for the same purposes as you would like to…

Hopefully someone here can give a better answer, I believe some who use a lot of Layers might prefer to use Filters?

[cadffm]

Hi Peter,

(I ignore jskala post - sorry)

I try to explain the basics, with no details, short as possible.

1. You need a Standard Modelspace Layerstate, the most simple would be: ALL LAYERS ON and THAWED.

2. In Layout vieports, if you don't want to see objects of Layer XY, us VP FREEZE only.

3. Restore Layerstates in viewport, enable to use properties as VP Overwrite.

   Restore Layer properties for visibility  only

   (If you don't overwrite other settings)

4. Don't work inside viewport, don't change layerproperties, for working in model you have Model tab.

You working in Model tab and do what you have to do, also Layer ON OFF and other things,

If you want to save(and close) the drawing, or plot a layout, or just for a visual check of your layouts,

Restore  your Modelspace basic layout state.

In my sample above, turn all layers on and thawed, otherwise restore your named layerstate for model tab.

And all is fine again.

-

Problems with Layerstates, missing ootb tools to edit Layerstates and to apply edited layerstates to viewports which already exist. But this is another story.

There is another thread from the last ~12 month, search for it: cadffm 2024 layerstates.

-

Explore VPMAX and VPMIN

[TomBeauford · Accepted solution]

When applying Layer States with the Layer States Manager dialog box uncheck 'Turn off layers not found in layer state' and check 'Apply properties as viewport overrides'.

You need to Double-Click inside each drawing viewport to modify the Layer States for model space in that viewport. Those viewport overrides will not be applied to the Model Tab or any other viewport's model space.

[jskalaXDDX5]

(I ignore jskala post - sorry)

Oh, come on Sebastian…don’t ignore your old pal Joe.  He’s just trying to learn:)

Seriously, I don’t draw buildings.  If I did, I would guess I would want to start drawing the first floor of a building above the basement and then turn off the basement to add details to the first floor, and if I wanted to add a furnace or something in the basement it might be easier if I could turn off the first floor and just look at the basement…

I thought OP was trying to do that with Layer States…

Please explain the correct (better?) process to me as if I was the small child of someone you like:)

And a link maybe for the other topic?  I tried to search the Forum to read the other topic, but when I searched for  cadffm 2024 layerstates  I got Managing Xref Overrides.

[cadffm]

"Oh, come on Sebastian…"

SORRY, it is just because of: I wrote my answer before I could see your post, so I added this short hint.

(I will write a PM later)

[peterbrewser]

Hi Sebastian,

Thank you for your quick reply. Your explanation is clear and is something that I believe we are following already. Will have a look for the other threads that have been posted and will explore the VPMAX and VPMIN (not sure what these are). 

[peterbrewser]

Hi Tom,

This seems to have fixed the issue, thanks!

I've included the process below in-case someone finds this in the future. 

Process:

• Changed settings in layer states settings as indicated.
• Switched to viewport for reflected ceiling plan. 
• Double-clicked viewport with drawing. 
• Changed to 'Reflected ceiling plan' layer state. 
  
  • At this point, the layout started to show the colours that were present in the model space. So I updated the VP colours for black and updated this layer state. 
• Switched to model space
• Changed layer state to ISA Model Layers (our standard office model space layers with all unthawed and unhidden). 
• Switched back to check layout, all was fine. 

Just a general question: when practices have many layers in drawings, is it common practice to have layer states saved for layouts and layer states for working in the model space? Such as layer states for General Arrangement, Reflected Ceiling, Room Layouts etc. for layouts and a colourful version for the model space.  

[cadffm]

Hi,

>>"is something that I believe we are following already"

Thumbs up.

>>" is it common practice to have layer states saved for layouts and layer states for working in the model space?"

Sure, or better: Why not?

Layerstates are for to save time, manually you have to change 100 Layerproperties, but with saved layerstates, just few clicks.

Think about, just few users using named layerstates, just a part of them using them for layout viewports, and only..

AutoCAD is a basic generally tool and you will find all possible workflows.

>>"and a colourful version for the model space. "

May I ask why you change the VP layer color instead to use a plotstyletable?

Melden

[peterbrewser]

Hi Melden, 

---

Sure, or better: Why not?

---

This is what we were thinking with the layer states, getting AutoCAD do as much as it can so we can focus on the layouts/ design! 

---

May I ask why you change the VP layer colour instead to use a plotstyletable?

Good question, I'm not really sure why. The main reason is that I don't think we have an office standard setup at the moment so don't have plot styles. We change the VP layer colours so we can get the layout to look pretty close to the printed/PDF output but it allows us to work in the model space with all the colours we're accustomed to (as we're all pretty accustomed to pink walls, red sanitary ware etc.) 

Should have mentioned, we use a 2D seed file that the whole office uses when starting a new drawing. This contains all of the predetermined linestyles/ weights in model space and layout space which also contains an A3 and A1 templates, with desired lines in viewport showing in black. If there is a quicker/ best practice/ more efficient way to do this, more than happy to do some more digging if you point me in the right direction. 

Thanks,

Peter

[cadffm]

Hi,

>>" I'm not really sure why"

I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just very interested in it. I would use monochrome plotstyletable, if the goal is to print in black.

(I am trying to use vp overrides less than possible, for usual VP Freeze is the only one)

>>"we use a 2D seed file"

You are talking a .DWT file? That's good. (I know seed files, but for MicroStation .dgn only)

[TomBeauford]

Yes, generally different viewports often show the same area of Model Space with different layer states to display and annotate different groups of objects. The layer states we use are saved in the drawing template files so they're available whenever they're needed.

[TomBeauford]

VPMAX displays the current viewport outline with Model Space filling the entire screen VPMIN returns it to normal. You can toggle them back and forth easily using the Maximize Viewport Button on the Status Bar which can be very helpful although there are temporary issues with display scale of objects modified while a viewport is maximized but it's still useful. Often since I always save the view of all my viewports (ever since an engineer paned around in all the viewports of a large drawing while reviewing and adding comments to) I switch to the Model Tab and restore the view to do those modifications.

[peterbrewser]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the tip, these are really useful. I realise that I found out about VPMAX a while back when I clicked onto the viewport and was stuck in VPMAX. I would be slightly gutted if someone was panning around in the setup viewports, good to know these can be saved. 

[peterbrewser]

Hi,

Yeah, as an office, we are currently moving from microstation to AutoCAD (although my previous firm was AutoCAD/ Revit based). Apologies if some of this terminology slips in. At the moment, we use a .DWG file that we use as a template and we open that when starting any new drawings. This contains all of our layers (and layerstate) info. I am aware of .DWT but unfortunately I joined a few months after they were setting this up. 

Thanks,

Peter