Layer Manager lineweights vs Plot Style Lineweights

[Anonymous]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me why the lineweights available for selection in the Layer Manager and, likewise, the Properties Pallette do not match up with those available in the Plot Style Tables?  By my count, there are 3 lineweights (.10 mm, .45 mm and .65mm) that appear in the Plot Style Tables that are not available in either the Layer Manager or the Properties Pallette.  Seems all other lineweights match up and are available in each.

Also, is there anyway to edit the lineweights available in the Layer Manager and Properties Pallette as can be edited in the Plot Style Tables?

Thanks!

Richard

AutoCAD 2015

[leothebuilder · Accepted solution]

Uhhh.....what plotstyle are we talking about here?

STB or CTB.

if your talking STB you can add as many lineweights as you want in the Layer Manager.

After setting the lineweight, you can then assign Full Saturation or Screened plotting.

If CTB, plotted lineweights are controlled by color.

[jggerth]

The issue you are seeing is because the developers who added the Linewights property for layers and onjects, ignored the already existing ability to use STB or CTB plot style tables to manage lineweights.  Instead of implementing what 100 percent of users used at the time, they decided ti invent something new, hard-code the lineweights they thought mattered, and not bother to read the ctb/stb.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, leothebuilder, I hadn't meant to mark your response as the accepted solution. Fat fingers. Anyway, thank you for your post. I think I pretty much get all that you said. My issue is with being able, or not being able, to edit the available line weights that you are shown if you open up, say, Layer Manager or the Properties palette. You can edit the line weights in either a CTB or STB table but, apparently, not those in the Layer Manager.

If I could edit the line weights made available in the Layer Manager, I could the fine tune them in a way that would be similar to the fine tuning you can accomplish in the CTB/STB tables. This would be useful, I think, especially in the situation, as you mentioned, where you would be using the Layer Manager for line weights and an STB plot style table for color and screening.

[Anonymous]

So, if their hard-coded, there's no chance they could be edited in anyway, right? Lost cause!

[leothebuilder]

Yes, you can edit the lineweight in STB through the layer manager.

In the Layer Manager you have the Lineweight column where you assign the thickness of your pen.

In the Plot Style column you assing how you want it plotted e.g. full saturation, 50% screening etc. etc.

This is how you assign line weight and plot style BY LAYER.

You can also change this in the Properties palette by clicking on an object and overriding a plotstyle and lineweight.

This would change the plotstyle for that OBJECT.

There are no hardcoded layers, unless you are using Autocad Architecture object, or AMEP or similar.

And even those layers and plotstyles can be changed.

Of course if you're using CTB, the only way to change a lineweight is by changing it's color.

[jggerth]

The issue is that the lineweights that can be assigned in the layer dialog, or on a by-object property, and are displayed on screen, have no relationshipo to whatever is set via the STB or CTB.  If the by-layer linewight is set to a hairline width, but the layer plotstyle or color is set to use a fat line, the user will only see the hairline width until he plots (or previews).

That's bad.  There are two controls that do the same thing, but can readily conflict with each other, and the one that the user sees onscreen when he uses the 'Display Lineweights' control is NOT the controlling one.

You can edit plotting line weights in either the STB or CTB, but the Lineweights used in layer properties or object properties are hardwired.

[leothebuilder]

JGerth, I beg to disagree.

I have been using STB for many years now.

In the Layer Manager I assign a Lineweight of say 0.35 in the Lineweight column.

Then I assign how I want it plotted, say Full Saturation in the Plot Style column.

That's all there is to it.

If I use the Display Lineweights control they display as intended, and they plot as intended at 0.35 full saturation.

I can override these plotstyles in the viewport if needed.

I can override by object in the properties palette. There is nothing hardwired about it.

This is not possible with CTB as plotting is controlled by the color.

The lineweight column in CTB only controls how the line is displayed using the Display Lineweight contol.

If you assign a lineweight of 0.50 but your CTB color is set to plot 0.09 it will plot at 0.09 regardless of the lineweight that was assigned.

Color is the determining factor for the final plot.

Thats is why I asked the OP to clarify if he uses STB or CTB.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, the hard-coded items I was refering to are the line weights that are in the Lineweights column you mentioned in the Layer Manager.  Those line weights can't be edited, as far as I can tell, much as I'd like it to be otherwise.  The choices made available in that column are fixed.  You have choices, for sure, but they seemingly can't be altered in any way.

Only in the CTB and STB tables, as far as I can tell, can line weights be edited and there seems to be no connection between these lineweights and those that show up in the Layer Manager or the Properties palette.

As JGerth pointed out previously, "You can edit plotting line weights in either the STB or CTB, but the Lineweights used in layer properties or object properties are hardwired."

[leothebuilder]

Yeah, the hard-coded items I was refering to are the line weights that are in the Lineweights column you mentioned in the Layer Manager

Ok, your description tells me your using CTB plot styles.

That is why I use STB.....much more versatile.

[Anonymous]

I'm actually looking at using an STB table.  Set my line weights by layer in the Layer Manager and set up a few Styles in an STB table, a solid black Style (or is that the Normal Style) and some screened Styles.  Maybe have a few STBs for different occasions.

I just wish I could tweak those line weights in the Layer table so that I could get some pixel widths that my 600 dpi printer makes available.  There's no way, for instance, as far as I can tell, of getting a line 10 or 11 pixels wide with the line widths available in the Layer Manager or in Properties.  Not that I can't live without these.  Just would have been nice.

[leothebuilder]

There are a few STB plot styke tables that come with the software.

Some has descriptive names like "Heavy", "Extra Heavy", "Light", "Extra Light" etc. etc.

The problem with such naming conventions si that what you think is "Heavy", I may think is "Extra Heavy"

I have my own set up and coming from old school hand drafting I name mine plotstyles the same as the old Rotring ink pens such as 0.35 and 0.50 (MM)

Unfortunately there is no equivalent in pixels OOTB.

[jggerth]

Look into your STB plot style editor.  You can either set Lineweight in the STB to be "Use Object Lineweight", or explicitly set a weight, ranging from 0.0000mm to 2.1100.

Name a style "Hairline, set the weight in the STB to 2.110.

In your drawing, create a line, and assign that style to that layer, and the layer lineweight to be  0.05mm.

Plot it.  Is the hardopy Fat, or Thin?

Turn on LWeight Display.  Does the onscreen display reflect the lineweight property of the layer, or the weight assigned to the Named Plot Style "Hairline" in the STB?

That's the issue I'm pointing out.  Regardless of using STB or CTB (and there's less difference in capability between the two than people think there is).  Two separate controls -- one impacts on screen display, one impact hardcopy.  And they don't talk to each other.

(and one of things I dislike about STB is that the 'friendly name'  is not necessarily equivalent to the plot settings -- you can name the Plot Style "Fat Screened 50"  and assign color green and lineweight  0.06, with a center linetype, None of which will display until you plot.)  Same thing of course with CTB -- the color can be assigned to contradictory  settings, with color 1 set to plot in pale green, etc etc.)

I grew up with Rapidograph pens, still have and occasionally use a set, and tend to use Plot Style Names that reflected those pens, e.g. 0000, 00, 2.5, 3, etc.

[leothebuilder]

Yes, In STB you can assign hardcoded lineweights.

I would suggest not doing that, although I have a number in my STB table for overrides.

The OOTB plot style "Full Saturation" is assigned "by object".

In the Layer Manager is where you assign that object, e.g. assign the lineweight to the layer.

I can change the lineweight whever I want in the Layer Manager.

You can use STB styles explicitly similar to colors in CTB, or you can keep it versatile.

It's up to the user.

I was attempting to respond to the OP's question if he could change plot styles and lineweight in the Layer Manager.

The answer is that with STB when used wisely, yes you can.

[ishumano4]

What's the difference between CTB and STB? Thanks in advance!