Draughting Standards

Draughting Standards

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor Advisor
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Message 1 of 17

Draughting Standards

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

Hi all

 

Does anybody worry about draughting standards anymore.

Way back in the 1980's our drawing office use to keep a copy of BS 308 parts 1 to 3

Since then I have never seen a copy of a draughting standard.

I believe BS 308 has been superseded by BS 8888, I have never seen a copy

The South African Standard is SANS 10111-1 : 2011, I have never seen a copy .

The ISO standard I believe is ISO 128, I have never seen a copy

None of these are available as PDF copies on the internet.

 

Does anybody, these days, bother keeping a copy of the relevant draughting standard,

in the drawing office, and if so which one, do you use your own country's standard or the ISO one?

 

Michael Kovacik
2d & 3d Autocad and Inventor designer/draughtsman
.
Draughting/Designing (Manufacturing) (31 yrs)
-Drawing Board (3 yrs)
--Cad (28 yrs)
---Cadkey (4 yrs)
---AutoCAD 2d & 3d (16 yrs)
---Inventor (4 yrs)
---Autocad and Inventor Simultaneously (4 years)
---(and recently Autocad/Inventor Customisation)
.
Authorised Autocad & Inventor Professional
Authorised Autodesk Trainer
.
Higher Diploma Mechanical Engineering
Autodesk Product Design Suite Ultimate 2018
Autocad 2018, Inventor Pro 2018
(personal licensed copy)
.
Johannesburg, South Africa
.
(Impossible only means you haven't
found the solution yet)

 

 

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Replies (16)
Message 2 of 17

dgorsman
Consultant
Consultant

Most of the time those standards are irrelevant.  Either the client has standards (which may or may not match), or we have our own standards (which may or may not match).  Rather than standardize by exception i.e. "Use this section, except for para. ___, unless the project started before ___, in which case do ____" it's easier and more consistent to provide your own robust set of standards.  That also means there aren't large sections which don't apply, such as mechanical drafting instruction in a civil/land design environment.

 

Not many businesses have a hard-copy standards library any more.  Even PDF libraries are rare, since they can be accessed online through providers like IHS and Techstreet.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


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Message 3 of 17

john.vellek
Alumni
Alumni

Hi @MikeKovacik4928,

 

I agree that finding standards can be difficult.  The standards still exist but since one has to pay for them, adoption is perhaps a bit more hit-and-miss.  A variety of standards are used globally and don't always align with jurisdiction requirements or lend themselves to efficient process across all applications. 

 

 

You have a great history of working in the variety of applications. Thanks for your contribution.


John Vellek


Join the Autodesk Customer Council - Interact with developers, provide feedback on current and future software releases, and beta test the latest software!

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Message 4 of 17

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

Thanks for that feedback.

 

So you are saying, you do have your own standards, even though they may be very general, which

though not in a printed format, will exist in an electronic format, and these standards are company

rather than national?

 

Mike

 

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Message 5 of 17

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend
Everyone has drafting standards: but hardly anyone pays for a list from somewhere and blindly follows them.

What software are you using and what industry are you in? Drafting standards in CAD for the most part are either set by your software (assuming you are not using just plain AutoCAD), your client, or the jurisdiction to which you submit CAD files to in order to continue with your work.]
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Message 6 of 17

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

John

I have yet to work in a drawing office, where there is a set of standard draughting procedures.

I have been in 11 drawing offices ranging from 3 to 9 draughtspersons, as well as working as a contract

draughtsperson, freelance draughtperson, and run my own draughting & training service

I have worked in the following fields for periods of 2 up to 6 years

 Diesel Engine Assy, Localisation &  Repowers; Coachbuilding (Buses, Trailers, Tankers, Tippers) ;

 Formwork & Scaffolding; Construction; Mechanical & Electrical Draughting+Autocad Training;

 Mining & Plant; Airforce; Agricultural Machines;  Freelancing/contracting (mechanical/manufacturing); 

 Coal Milling Machines

I was just curious to know how drawing offices in other parts of the world are run, and if they have

set procedures and specified draughting standards.

 

I can appreciate how difficult it is to get everybody to draught in one particular way, especially when

there are so many different ways of doing one thing!!, and also that it may not be beneficial to force draughters

to use one particular method, and stifle their "creativity and fee thinking".

 

Mike

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Message 7 of 17

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

We do have design procedures but we don't have draughting standards. I am in the formwork & scaffolding industry.

The other 8 draughters use AutoCAD 2D, I use autocad 2d, 3d & Inventor. Our drawings are either submitted to a contract engineer for approval and then to the customer for construction, or to the sales reps for costing and submission for tender, therefore there is no specific format required, they just have to have enough views, elevations

and details to be easily read by the end user.

 

Mike

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Message 8 of 17

john.vellek
Alumni
Alumni

Hi @MikeKovacik4928,

 

I can appreciate the frustration on this issue.

 

When I set standards for previous offices, I documented expectations for drafting and explained in the CAD Manual how templates were designed to be used as well as documented the tools that had been built and incorporated to make if happen efficiently.

 

I would provide new employees with a printed version of this manual and then also include a searchable PDF on our Intranet to allow staff to find pertinent information and also to be notified of any changes or updates.

 

I tired also to have brown-bag instruction sessions from time-to-time to review how things worked as well as to do training on new application features and workflows.  This was a great time for staff to express a desire for something to be changed or enhanced.


John Vellek


Join the Autodesk Customer Council - Interact with developers, provide feedback on current and future software releases, and beta test the latest software!

Autodesk Knowledge Network | Autodesk Account | Product Feedback
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Message 9 of 17

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

John

1. We don't have such a manual, nor have I seen one in any of the 11 drawing offices I have been in.

2. I have no control over this any way as I am not in charge

3. We don't have drawing office meetings to discuss such matters

4. Each Drafter has his own ways which are different from the other drafters, some use annotative,

    others don't even know how annotative scaling works, I balloon reference and put parts list on my

   drawings, the others don't balloon ref and put part list on excel etc

This is the way it has been for ages, but I live in hope!

 

Mike

 

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Message 10 of 17

dgorsman
Consultant
Consultant

@MikeKovacik4928 wrote:

Thanks for that feedback.

 

So you are saying, you do have your own standards, even though they may be very general, which

though not in a printed format, will exist in an electronic format, and these standards are company

rather than national?

 

Mike

 


We do have our own standards.  They aren't documented in an instruction manual per se.  Most of the standards (e.g. settings for layers, text styles, and so on) are controlled through automation so are transparent to the users.  The data files are constructed to be "self documenting" so there is no separate documentation that has to be updated for every little change.  THAT is a royal PITA.

 

The standards are based on the company experience in our region and industry, with our past and present clients and their requirements in mind.  How they are implemented is also heavily influenced by what clients have historically required e.g. almost all are CTB so our default is also CTB; the automation and settings did not support STB until we had a client which used that method.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


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Message 11 of 17

pendean
Community Legend
Community Legend

Are you trying to have (or create) more common features and settings within your office? if yes, that's mostly done through involving all the others into the decision making process, find the most common items everyone does and start there as your base for creating more uniform drafting guidance.

 

Unless you're the top boss and your word is the law of course 🙂

 

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Message 12 of 17

BeKirra
Advisor
Advisor

@MikeKovacik4928 wrote:

John

I have yet to work in a drawing office, where there is a set of standard draughting procedures.

I have been in 11 drawing offices ranging from 3 to 9 draughtspersons, as well as working as a contract

draughtsperson, freelance draughtperson, and run my own draughting & training service

I have worked in the following fields for periods of 2 up to 6 years

 Diesel Engine Assy, Localisation &  Repowers; Coachbuilding (Buses, Trailers, Tankers, Tippers) ;

 Formwork & Scaffolding; Construction; Mechanical & Electrical Draughting+Autocad Training;

 Mining & Plant; Airforce; Agricultural Machines;  Freelancing/contracting (mechanical/manufacturing); 

 Coal Milling Machines

I was just curious to know how drawing offices in other parts of the world are run, and if they have

set procedures and specified draughting standards.

 

I can appreciate how difficult it is to get everybody to draught in one particular way, especially when

there are so many different ways of doing one thing!!, and also that it may not be beneficial to force draughters

to use one particular method, and stifle their "creativity and fee thinking".

 

Mike


 

Based on your role(s), I don't think there are much you can do.

And agree with what you said:

...it may not be beneficial to force draughters to use one particular method, and stifle their "creativity and fee thinking".

I believe that many experianced drafters would like to see a drafting standard in practice. But in fact, a drafting standard is rarely practically complied, especially in a CAD office with large number of drafters.

 

Here is examples.

I have set up drafting procedures including a set of drawing templates and lisp routines in my office. And we now use vault as a documentation library/data management tool.

  • One of the lisp routines I created allows users to edit/update drawing revision in DWG file. This handy tool saves users time and helps them updating "DWGprop", title block and revision block by only a few clicks prior to checking files into vault. Until now I don't see users using it even I reminded them.

         "I don't have time and why not just checking files into vault straightaway." This is what they think.

  • With the drawing templates I oblige users using drawing titleblocks in layout. But I have seen some users moving the titleblock/boarder to model space all the time.

Indeed, I understand your frustration but there is not much you can do even you are in the leading position. Unless, unless you are also the head of HR. Smiley Very Happy

 

Please mark "Accept as Solution" and "Like" if my reply resolves the issue and it will help when others need helps.
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A circle is the locus of a cursor, starting and ending at the same point on a plane in model space or in layout such that its distance from a given coordinates (X,Y) is always constant.
X² + Y² = C²
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Message 13 of 17

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

Bekirra

 

Yes, very frustrating. Other draughters tend to ignore any advice given to them, and if nothing is enforced by HOD, they carry on in their own little merry way!!

The very reason,I am on this forum, is because there is no one to discuss CAD matters with here, and the forum is the only place where I can get decent opinions and feedback from experienced users like myself, who are completely open to new ways, new suggestions, and more efficient practices.

However, learning all the time, and implementing better practices on a personal basis, has always been my aim

 

Mike

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Message 14 of 17

BeKirra
Advisor
Advisor

You may also post your questions in CAD managers forum.

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/cad-managers-forum/bd-p/112

Please mark "Accept as Solution" and "Like" if my reply resolves the issue and it will help when others need helps.
= ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ =
A circle is the locus of a cursor, starting and ending at the same point on a plane in model space or in layout such that its distance from a given coordinates (X,Y) is always constant.
X² + Y² = C²
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Message 15 of 17

MikeKovacik4928
Advisor
Advisor

Thanks BeKirra

 

Good idea. Even though I am not a CAD Manager, I will post there tonight when I get back from work, and get their comments too, since they are the people that are responsible for implementing such stuff.

 

Mike

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Message 16 of 17

RobDraw
Mentor
Mentor

@BeKirra wrote:
I believe that many experianced drafters would like to see a drafting standard in practice. But in fact, a drafting standard is rarely practically complied, especially in a CAD office with large number of drafters.

 


A good standard will be followed by experienced drafters because a good standard along with a good project template only defines what is required as output, line-types, dim styles, text styles, text/leader justification, to name a few. As we all know, there are often multiple ways to get a desired result. So, any methodologies in a standard should be offered for example only. Workflows really should be in a separate document as a guideline type of thing.


Rob

Drafting is a breeze and Revit doesn't always work the way you think it should.
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Message 17 of 17

BeKirra
Advisor
Advisor

@RobDraw wrote:

 


... As we all know, there are often multiple ways to get a desired result.

... Workflows really should be in a separate document as a guideline type of thing.


 

Agree.

But people rarely read/follow the standard in practice.

For the example I mentioned before, some people always place titleblocks in model space against the standard which instructs the titleblock should be sticked in layouyt all time. They just ignore the advantages/benefits by working with viewports/layouts. What they think may be "my drawing details are perfect and what is wrong if I have done my drawings on time? blah, blah..."

Other example can be the use of layers...

 

Another example is drivers. They all know the traffic laws. What they want is travelling from place "A" to "B" and saving time. We have seen those speedy, turning left/right where is not allowed if there is no police/camera.

 

Please mark "Accept as Solution" and "Like" if my reply resolves the issue and it will help when others need helps.
= ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ = ♪ = ♫ =
A circle is the locus of a cursor, starting and ending at the same point on a plane in model space or in layout such that its distance from a given coordinates (X,Y) is always constant.
X² + Y² = C²
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