Choosing the right AutoDesk platform

[maddyLDFAQ]

Hello AutoCAD community, 

I was unsure where to put this ask but I figure I'll just throw it out in the wind and see if anyone catches it. 

I am currently trying to find a 3D platform for a High School team-based engineering project to design a 3D model of a city. The timeline would be 3-4 months with some teams being able to meet every day and some teams only being able to meet once a week. Most students would not have any knowledge of these types of platforms, so I'd like to keep the learning curve down. The agent I am currently speaking to suggested to use 4 platforms at once for a more holistic approach, but with the truncated timeline and no experience, I think 1 or maybe 2 platforms would be best.

Which software(s) would you recommend from the list? I was looking into AutoCAD, Revit, and Inventor Professional. Do you have any non-AutoDesk recommendations? 

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer!

[pendean]

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@maddyLDFAQ wrote:

...find a 3D platform for a High School team-based engineering project to design a 3D model of a city....

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Not Inventor, its not for city design. Not AutoCAD, it's too old for a new generation, long learning curve, clunky too, you don't want to scare them away. It's time has passed for the new generation IMHO.

How intricate and what level of detail are you expecting from the students?

Autodesk Forma is a good tool or the task, not sure about EDU licensing for it, you'll need to explore that yourself through https://www.autodesk.com/products/forma/overview?term=1-YEAR&tab=subscription

But you can do as much and they will get more fun using an exceptional and super flexible design tool like SketchUp Pro: https://www.sketchup.com/en/industries/urban-planning 

Explore more here https://www.linkedin.com/advice/0/youre-planning-city-project-what-software-can-you-5svgf 

[cadwomen]

Looks like y self dont get work with ADSK. 

So ACAD Map are for Infrastructer. 

Archicad 

[maddyLDFAQ]

Thank you for your response. I will look into SketchUp and Forma. And I really liked that LinkedIn article you gave, so thank you. I am reaching out to one of the commenters with more questions. What is your take on Revit? That seems like a good platform with a lower learning curve that would give you some good data too at the end of the project. 

The teams will design a full but relevantly small scale city, should have all the elements you need, power sources, transportation, schools, city services, etc. And will be scored on functionality, design/aesthetic, amongst other criteria. So full on detail is not required, the content of the city is the most important part. 

[pendean]

REVIT is the next-generation AEC-focused CAD product, but it's a tool to design a single whole building or a campus with a few buildings, but not whole cities, cityscapes or urban planning etc. IMHO.

[TheCADnoob]

If learning curve of the application becomes the hangup you can also look into tinkercad. It has a very low learning curve. I believe it also has the ability to collaborate on models. It's not necessarily a professional-level tool though. 

https://www.tinkercad.com/

[wispoxy]

Autodesk Forma $1,500 per/yr (Lots of tools and easily works with Revit)

It definitely seems Autodesk Forma is in the direction you're looking for, plus it's a good way to get them connected with Autodesk products in which is common and well respected by professionals worldwide.

[matt_anderson_pe]

Autodesk InfraWorks or ESRI ArcGIS Pro

[maddyLDFAQ]

$1,500/year is not feasible unless we can secure a sponsorship deal. We want to use a platform that is cheap/free so that everyone can participate and have access to this program. I did see AutoDesk is free for educators so it still may be feasible. 

[matt_anderson_pe]

If you dont know - https://www.autodesk.com/education/edu-software/overview?sorting=featured&filters=individual

Autodesk supports Education reasonably well.

[wispoxy]

1. I would communicate with Autodesk and try to get the students enrolled in the Educator/Student free versions.
~or~
2. Communicate directly to the school district superintendent about funding towards the program. Then speak to Autodesk about a cheaper subscription because you're buying in bulk.

[maddyLDFAQ]

These are all great resources and suggestions - thank you all! 

I will definitely be researching more into Forma and SketchUp. The biggest points I'm looking at are price, learning curve, and accessability for teams to use across the world with or without an educator email address. This is for a global STEM education program so some teams will not be directly associated with a school and we want everyone to have equal access. 

[TheCADnoob]

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@maddyLDFAQ wrote:

These are all great resources and suggestions - thank you all! 

I will definitely be researching more into Forma and SketchUp. The biggest points I'm looking at are price, learning curve, and accessability for teams to use across the world with or without an educator email address. This is for a global STEM education program so some teams will not be directly associated with a school and we want everyone to have equal access. 

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@LeoWarren-EDU  Is there anything you would suggest that could help?

[JamesMaeding]

@maddyLDFAQ 

@matt_anderson_pe  had the best response, Infraworks.

Its free for students, along with acad, civil3d, map....

It makes assembling surfaces, images, 3d models, and surface "coloring" easier than any.

If my company forced me to go ESRI or Bentley, I would have to, but I get to choose.

The 3d modeling of a city is no beginner task.

You will need to learn and use:

1) surface modeling - typically done in civil3d using feature lines or corridors. You can also get GIS data for some area and turn that into a surface..

2) ortho photo gathering - you drape images on your surface to make them look like google earth. Look up MOBAC, and the oziexplorer format, as it makes a png and world file from free online imagery. You can also get an aerial image, line up in autocad, and make the world file there if you search online for my lisp to do so. You need that world file to tell infraworks and any gis like program how to line it up.

3) surface "coloring" - typically done with polygonal shapes in cad, then exported as shapefile, then assigned a style in infraworks. That alone takes some learning.

4) 3d models - we do buildings in sketchup, and export to fbx, then pull into IW as "city furniture". You can place them one by one b y hand, or automate placement of hundreds at a time using shapefiles and "rules"in IW

I'll stop there. Our company spent years learning these items a bit at a time, and we were already experts at creating the data for each step.

So for students, maybe get a DEM surface model from USGS, and imagery from same source, and have them draw building outlines in CAD and export as shapefile or other gis format.

You can pull those into IW easily, and assign heights a few ways.

Roads can be created using the tools in IW, or ground colored using "coverages" if you look that up.

Its just closed shapes drawn in cad, exported to shapefile, and assigned colors in IW.

If you can do that, you are doing pretty good.

IW has many tools built into it also, for those that want to staqy in IW and not make data outside.

good luck.

[maddyLDFAQ]

Wow this was so detailed, thank you. 

I can appreciate the use of 2 or 3 platforms to design/draw and then export to color/shape. However, I really would rather only use 1 platform to reduce the learning curve. So, it seems like Infraworks would be able to design/build roads, buildings, transportation, power systems, etc. and color and shape them as well. 

Do you have any other resources for an introduction into Infraworks? 

[maddyLDFAQ]

I will say though, one of the requirements is building a futuristic city. Does Infraworks only have a set standard road type, building type, transportation type? Is there a way to design in IW? If no, I guess this is where another platform would come in handy - which platforms would you recommend to design in to import to IW, Sketchup? 

[JamesMaeding]

@maddyLDFAQ 

A futuristic city? Do you mean if the self proclaimed climate controllers get their way and we have all electric things with no power available? Just model what we have now but no cars, planes, trains, or water pressure. Maybe some fruit to eat some of the year. lol

I guess maybe there are gaming environments where you build cities like that.

You need to look around more as saying things like "design" covers the full spectrum from cartoon roads to ones with proper curves for speed and sight distance. I would say IW has darn good road tools for planning type models. I never use them though as we model real designs where our surfaces are modeled from lots of 3d linework that gets triangulated, all in autocad.

For buildings and other 3d "assets" as they are called in the gaming world, you can use every cad platform, and many others, as they all export formats IW can read.

You are basically asking how to build a game environment. If you get into unrealengine or Unity, you will find their terrain modeling is kind of odd. Its subdivided quads which do not give the detail an irregular triangulated surface can. If you can get past that, those can be used and are amazing.

I like Unity as I program in c# and its easy to set things up using that.

If you as their forums how to make buildings and 3d things, they say "use your favorite digital asset authoring program" as if its assumed you are a competent 3d modeler before choosing the gaming environment to assemble things into a game.

You are starting from the beginning on all fronts and making a game with any level of nuance is not figured out in a month, more like 6 months depending if you already know certain things.

Asking students to do that is interesting. You can do it, but you need to divide things up so they can focus on one thing, like making a building in sketchup and exporting as fbx or dxf. Then the surface people would need to decide how they will do things, maybe using GIS existing data, or drone point clouds, or what. Its a deep pool you want to swim in.

[JamesMaeding]

@maddyLDFAQ 

Yah, there is a whole autodesk forum for infraworks, as well as youtube videos, and autodesk university past classes.

IW Forum 

I would argue Hunsaker & Assoc. Irvine have one of the best teams for making IW models.

Here is an example of a project we did to help developers price different lots:

When you have that much grading/houses/roads going on, as well as extensive existing ground, it takes a while to develop workflows that get things into place fast.

That model is about a $20k to make. If you do not have our tools for the modeling and have to use civil3d, add another $10k at least (60 hours). Reality is most teams with just c3d cut corners to get that cost down but we never really know as we get all the major visualization work from clients in our area.

[maddyLDFAQ]

That looks amazing and is more along the line of what I am visualizing for this project, obviously with it including more city aspects (skyscrapers, transportation options, different zones, etc.) The reality of the cost and hours to build this (excuse the word) 'simple' model of developments is kicking in. I will definitely post a thread in the IW forum thank you for linking. I wonder if just cutting down the maximum square milage would help in the develop time or if that would just create more obstacles because then the teams will need to get creative to fit everything in a tighter space. 

[maddyLDFAQ]

Hi folks - I'm back! 

I'm now leaning toward designing in Revit and then importing into Twin Motion for the 3D rendering. Both would be free and seems like both are used in the professional world. Does anyone have experience designing futuristic buildings in Revit - the website says you can design anything you can imagine. However, I am still taking into consideration the learning curve and starting from scratch. I downloaded the free trial and was able to almost build a house following a YouTube video (got a little stuck because it was different versions and I literally have never used Revit before). 

Looking for any resources/feedback/guidance using Revit for absolute beginners designing futuristic buildings within a city looking space. (All of the YT videos I found all had their own starting template, how do I just start from absolute ground zero?)

Thanks much!