CAD products for students

[Anonymous]

For CAD software, is there an Autodesk product that will run better on a not so good computer? Thinking of my high school students and which product I should steer them to for home use.

[Alfred.NESWADBA]

Hi,

welcome @Anonymous.autodesk.com!

>> which product I should steer them to for home use

It depends on what type of geometry they will use, which discipline of studying...?

- alfred -

[Vinayv4v]

The software to use depends on your requirements, based on which field your students need training. If you prefer 2D then I would recommend Autocad 2013 or less since you have a less configuration system. 

[john.vellek]

Hi @Anonymous,

I see that you are visiting as a new member. Welcome to the Autodesk Community!

I have found that students frequently have better hardware than I do on my desktop! 

Can you tell me what your students are trying to learn? Such as mechanical, architectural, structural,animation, etc?  Autodesk has a WIDE variety of applications that might be appropriate.

There is also an Educational Portal that might have more resources for you and be able to provide additional options and insights.

[dgorsman]

FYI - student and institutional licenses for 2013 and earlier releases are no longer available.  The 2014 line of products will also be retired shortly.  Plus, its generally good for students to learn on something at least reasonably recent.

[owen66]

As mentioned below, (or above i guess) it really depends on what you plan on teaching. If it's at ALL going to involve 3D, i would advocate for the free SketchUp software from Trimble. 

AutoCAD is a dinosaur. It was great back in the 80s when it was really the only game in town (and its floating point calcs and precision were unbeatable). But now, 3D is the new game in town and AutoCAD just isn't great for it. It's why Autodesk has an entire library of applications with a much more intuitive 3D engine and interface (Revit, Inventor, ReCap...)

My guess is that AutoCAD is only kept around because of the number of users, but I'm guessing that those users are probably steeped in simple 2D drawings else they would have migrated to something more powerful like Revit. 

All of this is to also say that most Autodesk products are relatively expensive. If your'e tied to Autodesk, you might check out ReMake - I haven't followed them lately, but they used to have free applications like 123D Catch and some others that i believe have been rolled into the Memento project and renamed "ReMake". Not sure if it's still free...

But I really think SketchUp might be worth looking at (it also has a pretty large community so help and tutorials abound).

[dgorsman]

There is still a substantial 3D community in AutoCAD, mostly in the space between Revit (too much commercial building, not enough mechanical engineering) and Inventor (too much mechanical engineering, not enough Swiss Army knife).  More specifically its in certain fields which have been traditionally DWG oriented such as civil design (with Civil3D), process plant design (with Plant3D), structural detailing (with Advance Steel).  To say nothing of various third-party tools based on top of the AutoCAD platform from Intergraph, Bentley, and others.

[Anonymous]

Hi All, Thank you all for the feedback. We are taking baby steps and going with 2D right now for machined parts and using the geometry for Mastercam. Once we get that down (including the teacher - me) we will move into 3D. I plan on using CAD to help the students with their print reading skills as well as CNC milling and CNC lathe skills. The students are high school students and many are not well off. That's why I was looking for something that can run okay on an older computer. Lenny

[leeminardi]

If you are going to do mechanical parts as opposed to buildings I would look into OnShape.  It is free, runs over the internet (nothing to install) and is surprisingly interactive for a web based-product.  Ideal for student use.  It is similar in operation to Inventor but not as robust.  Although it is a 3D system you can limit initial use to 2 1/2 D parts (e.g., flat plates and revolved shapes) but can expand later into full 3D when you are ready.  You will have to learn the basics of constraint-based modeling  but that is necessary to make effective use of similar CAD systems like Inventor, Solidworks, and Creo.

~Lee 

[kcobabe]

Well considering many free CAD programs followed the Autodesk lead (yes even Microstation looks like AutoCAD now) there is not much of a reach you will have finding software the emulates AutoCAD.

As for CAD 3D being a dinosaur.... hardly.  I use it for 3D all the time.  You kind of need to when you are dealing with Plant 3D, MEP, and C3D.  It also makes all of the other software that was built for 3D design easier once you get through the difficulty curve of CAD and 3D.

[owen66]

To everyone above - apologies for calling AutoCAD a dinosaur in 3D. My life is Teh Architectures so i forget all the verticals and different fields for which ACAD is still great. I've been ingrained in AutoCAD v. Revit for years now and honestly, I haven't really done 3D in AutoCAD since back when it was all just extruding, adding, subtracting and constantly flipping your UCS around. So ignore me, for I know nothing. 🙂

[Anonymous]

Mr. Owen, Sketchup is toy for 3D compared to AutoCAD.  I find it quite amusing when well-meaning but wholly uninformed individuals make claims about the demise of AutoCAD and its perceived inability to do 3D effectively when I've been using AutoCAD 3D for a couple of decades to build complex refineries and process facilities.  Throw in the several add-on applications like Advance Steel or CadWORX Plant and it is not only much cheaper than the over the top "Plant" applications but it's much faster.   People have been predicting the passing of AutoCAD since it hit the market in the early 80's, and yet here it is some 30+ years later and it's STILL holding the lion's share of the market by a WIDE margin.  Currently AutoCAD's biggest competitor is Autodesk with higher (read "more expensive") end applications like Revit and Plant 3D.

[owen66]

I guess when I hear "CAD products for Students" I don't think "Structural Design Technicians", I think "cheap" and "simple", you know, because they're students (and probably don't have thousands of dollars lying around).

I appreciate that you're a specialist, but students are not.

Also, what do you mean by "Currently AutoCAD's biggest competitor is Autodesk with higher (read "more expensive") end applications like Revit and Plant 3D"?

Just that Autodesk has made other 3D applications aside from AutoCAD? Ones that are more tailored to a specific industry? Either way, this thread is not really helping the opening post, and in fact, I probably shouldn't have even replied. Congratulations on your lifetime of 3D AutoCAD use though! Sounds like you really know your stuff!

[leeminardi]

Randal, Whether or not Sketchup should be considered a toy depends on what you are trying to do.  May users find Sketchup sufficient for their needs.  I would never try to model a manufactured part with Sketchup or document a refinery.  However as a casual user familiar with AutoCAD, Inventor, Revit, Solidworks, Creo, OnShape, 3DS Max, and some other CAD tools, Sketchup was my product of choice last summer when I was designing a structure to shade the deck of a friend’s summer house.  In very quick order I was able to build a model of the house, position and orient it geographically so I could study the shadows cast by the sun at various times and dates throughout the summer.  Yes, this could be done with AutoCAD but it would have been much more difficult.  AutoCAD is still often my product of choice depending on what I need to do.  For complex 3D modeling of mechanical parts and assemblies my first choice is usually Inventor.

Since the OP is looking for a system to help his students with “print reading skills” of products that will be machined I would probably steer him to Inventor or, as a second choice, AutoCAD.  Both are large complex programs that  may not run satisfactorily on inexpensive computers.  I think OnShape is a good entry into 3D mechanical part modeling and developing a student’s skills in 3D visualization, and constraint-based modeling.  It could give a student a real sense of accomplishment but OnShape would be challenging to output for CNC or to create ANSI standard drawings. Since AutoCAD is so well known AutoCAD LT might be an acceptable first step.  Another AutoCAD advantage is that it may be easier for students to find work if they have familiarity with it.  That could also be said for Inventor and Solidworks although to a lesser extent.  The fact that Autodesk makes all their products available for free for students and schools is a real plus.  It still requires you to have  suitable computer.

As for AutoCAD’s market  share, that is a difficult number to obtain.  It has been around since the early 80’s  so the installed base should be quite large.  There are a variety of market surveys available on the web but we are all aware that they have limitations and inaccuracies.  This one from CNC Cookbook would have a bias towards mechanical applications.

http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2013/05/27/results-of-our-2013-cad-survey/

~Lee

[Anonymous]

You're right, I'm a specialist not a student.  I hire students and if they only know Sketchup they have little value to us.  I need students to learn the basics of the applications used out here in the real world, so the best software for students is the software used by most of the industries in which they will seek employment, and by a far margin that would be AutoCAD.  And for students, AutoCAD is free, can't get much cheaper than free.

Yes, AutoDESK has made several discipline specific non-AutoCAD applications that continue to run far behind AutoCAD as a market share but have displaced other competitors, to the point they are their own best competition. 

[GrantsPirate]

Autodesk offers many, if not all, of their products for free to students. http://www.autodesk.com/education/home
Which program to learn depends on the needs and interest of the student. At the most basic level I would break it down as follows.
Architectural - Revit would be the most obvious choice.
Machine parts - Inventor and Fusion
General CAD - 2D and 3D - AutoCAD is the one.
A good choice might be the Design Suites they offer.
Product Design Suite Ultimate for Mechanical Engineers, Product Designers, Electrical Engineers.
Building Design Suite Ultimate for Architects, MEP Engineers, Structural Engineers
Entertainment Creation Suite Ultimate for Animators, Visual Effects Artists, Game Developers

[Anonymous]

Lee, your posted survey makes my point for me.  In an industry uniquely suited for applications like Soldiworks, Alibre, Inventor, and Rhino3D, AutoCAD still has a 12% market share beating out applications like Inventor which was created specifically for that market, but then again using Inventor to plate nest a plasma table is a bit of overkill.   A similar result is had in nearly all niche markets, but when moving into industries like architecture, civil, pipeline, and plant design plain old AutoCAD runs in the 50% - 70% of market or higher depending on the area and discipline.

But you're correct, Sketchup is an excellent tool for working out a patio cover or re-arranging furniture in your living room.  However a student with those skills is mostly unneeded in the work place unless he wants a job rearranging furniture.  Being older I guess I take a much more practical view of training students, they should be trained in something that will be productive/marketable/profitable in the workplace.  There's plenty of time later for hobbies that don't cost several grand a semester.  I can't tell you how many college graduates I've interviewed in the last decade who have NO marketable skills and they're shocked when I don't hire them.  One kid had a Master's in Graphic Art and a $50,000 student loan debt who was downright indignant that I had no job for him.  After all, I'd hired his little brother and he ONLY had a two year tech certificate in drafting.

[beyoungjr]

WOW! such a diverse range of info being fed to you.

First off... Cost is not an issue here because it's a student requirement and the Autodesk Education Community makes every product available under a free student license (3 year now I think).

Next... My late 2009 Toshiba Qosmio laptop is running AutoCAD 2017 and Inventor 2017 just fine.  Win7 64bit, Intel i7 processor, and 8gb RAM.

I use ACAD 2017 and Mastercam 2017 at my shop at work and ACAD, Inventor, and Revit (2017) at the school I teach at in the evenings.  We bailed on Microstation because the teaching audience disappeared.

Stick with industry leading software's to teach to your students because those tools will buy them better entry to the job market or post-secondary education.

If the "not so good" computers are more than 10 years old that will be problematic in ways beyond CAD.  If they are problematic due to "Crap-Ware" then users need to consider a major restore or minimal upgrades.

[john.vellek]

HI @Anonymous,

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@Anonymous wrote:

Hi All, Thank you all for the feedback. We are taking baby steps and going with 2D right now for machined parts and using the geometry for Mastercam. Once we get that down (including the teacher - me) we will move into 3D. I plan on using CAD to help the students with their print reading skills as well as CNC milling and CNC lathe skills. The students are high school students and many are not well off. That's why I was looking for something that can run okay on an older computer. Lenny

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Since you are starting with 2D I think you might consider AutoCAD 360 which is entirely Cloud based.  Then, move to Fusion 360 perhaps which is well suited to 3D and CNC/machining and also is largely cloud based. This might get those older computers to run for a bit longer.

Please select the Accept as Solution button if my post solves your issue or answers your question.