BugOrFeature: Duplicate objects - The doubled objects after BEDIT usage BUG

[cadffm]

BugOrFeature: Duplicate objects - The doubled objects after BEDIT usage BUG

Please fix this bug in the core program, it is present since 2007 and just some
coincidences protect the majority of users from this - but only coincidentally

Changes by BEDIT not compatible with Recover and Audit in incremental-saved files

The thread is reported as a support case and I hope AutoDESK will use the information to find and solve the problem in the program.

I will explain the simplest case to follow me, not all cases.
Use AutoCAD 2007-2009 or 2013-2022 (I tested 2007,2008)

Let's go: (use the attached Scripts and jump to Step2, or go step by step thru Part1)
Part1, create the potential problem
-Set ISAVEPERCENT to 50(default) or higher
-Start a NEW file by acad.dwt or acadiso.dwt, or without a template
The next steps are just examples, the problem has nothing to do the the object types and properties,
but because of another parameter - please keep it simple and follow the steps, no unneeded settings and steps.
-Create a RECTANG, select and use BLOCK to create a block (convert to Block option)
your first "version" of this block..
-SAVEAS the file in your native dwg Format (2007-2009/dwg2007,2011-2012/dwg2010,2013-2017/dwg2013,2018-2022/dwg2018)
-Use BEDIT to add a circle [block close with save]
the second "version" of this block..
-QSAVE
-Use BEDIT to move the circle [block close with save]
the third "version" of this block..
-QSAVE
-Use BEDIT to move the circle again [block close with save]
the last "version" of this block for this sample..
-QSAVE
<you won't see a problem>
-CLOSE the file

Part2, Let the problem appears

a) Open the file by OPEN, no problem (but the potential problem is still present)
b) Open the file by RECOVER, check the Block content now..
You will see "all 4 block states" in one, the three old versions and the last one.
or
c) Open the file by OPEN, no problem (but the potential problem is still present)
start Command AUDIT YES
use REGEN or start BEDIT to see "all 4 block states" in one, the three old versions and the last one.

Could you reproduce this? If not i guess you made a mistake (or you are nut running a standard AutoCAD setup),
More about the parameter to get or to aware the Bug, see below.

Internal Blocks or the whole modelspace doesn't matter, the problem is
BEDIT + incremental saves + wherst or audit

General

To force the problem
- use isavepercent >0 (best for testing is 100)
- use bedit
- save in native dwgFormat
- open the file by RECOVER
- open the file by open and use AUDIT YES (display REGEN needed then)

How to not get the problem
- use isavepercent 0
or
- save not in the native dwgFormat
or
- use Purge or AUDIT YES before QSAVE
or
- save not in the native dwgFormat
(all 4 versions forces the same thing: It foce a full save instead a incremental save)

Why "you" never get this problem? Perhaps because there to many parameter that need come together
If your isavepercent was >0 + you used use bedit + and saved in native dwgFormat,
perhaps your edits in your files session was to big for the available free incremental save space!
If you have a new file, saved 30kb, your isavepercent is set to 100,
but all your edit steps are 70kb of informations, AutoCAD will run a full save (like a save with isavepercent=0)

HTH

After so much work in many years on the subject, I am infinitely happy to have gotten to the point,

My special thanks go to user @schlueter who, due to my posts, managed to reproduce the
problem cleanly through attempts - THANK YOU on behalf of everyone who will benefit from it.

[ВeekeeCZ]

So it seems that 49 is max safe value of isave, right? Just made some quick tests and seems so. 

Thanks for this heads-up.

[cadffm]

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@ВeekeeCZ  schrieb:

So it seems that 49 is max safe value of isave, right?

---

 No, absolutely wrong! The ONLY save value is 0

Only 0 makes sure a full-save instead an incremental save.

Try to understand isavepercent / incremental save and you see why

(note: You can't see how much memory, so all my Numbers are just to understand and not 100% checkable )

    Your (full saved) file is 1000kb,   your edits needs 500kb, you are save with isavepercent=49

     and AutoCAD run a full-save

     But what is if your (full saved) file is 2000kb ? 500kb are less then 49% of 2000kb 😉

[RobDraw]

This forum is not the place for bug reports. Autodesk barely monitors the user help forums.

Good luck.

[cadffm]

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@RobDraw  schrieb:

>>This forum is not the place for bug reports.

I know and you know that i knowing that

>>Autodesk barely monitors the user help forums.

I know and you know that i knowing that

>>Good luck.

Thank you Rob

---

I never tire of explaining to you two ghosts again and

as I have written above:

""The thread will is* reported as a support case and I hope AutoDESK will use the information to find and solve the problem in the program.""

*delayed because of technical problem with my Autodesk account, which Autodesk need to fix - hopefully soon

and over and over again in the past:
Starting a new thread and escalating it is the only official way for me to start a support case.

thx

[RSomppi]

...

[cadffm]

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@RSomppi  wrote:

Maybe you should start with that disclaimer unless you want to keep on explaining...

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Not a disclaimer but an explanation for new computer users:

Whenever someone talk about the way to force BUGS CRASHES and CORRUPT DATA

and you want to try it..

Close all important files

NEVER use real production file for tests, if you want to test - do it in copies or in new files.

[cheryl.buck]

Hi @cadffm,

Thank you for posting the issue in the AutoCAD forums. The issue has been raised with the product team and they will follow up with you shortly.  

Once resolved, they will update the thread. 

All the best,

[radu.petrescu]

Hello @cadffm,

thank you again for providing these detailed steps to reproduce this issue regarding the duplication of objects within blocks, from scratch(while using the BEDIT command).
With this I was able to properly document this for our development department and forwarded it for further investigation. This is of great help, since it presented itself quite elusive in the past.
As also communicated in the escalated case stemming from this forum thread, I am currently not able to give you an estimate on when or how this will be adjusted in the future.
I understand the frustration regarding this topic though and will try to put as much emphasize on it internally as I can.
Thank you again and have a wonderful remainder of today. 

🙂

All the best

[CP-Koch]

Hello,

several of our customers reported that behaviour recently and would be very thankful if it would be solved in the next update or service pack. Is there some information about a timeline available? Any update or info is highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance and best regards
Markus

[cadffm]

Hi Markus,

>>"several of our customers reported that behaviour recently"

You can hope that the incidents are related to the problem described here,
then you can easily bypass it for the future as described.

>>"and would be very thankful if it would be solved in the next update or service pack."

You are funny.

1. NEXT update? Is already written

2. The Bug I described is old as the feature of Bedit himself. We talking about 15years, it's probably not at the top of the list (it was fixed in 2010-2012 and not a problem in 2006 -  if I am right)

3. Don't wait for AutoDESK in this case, tell all users to disable the incremental save option (isavebak=0), easy to do, works from now.

>>"Is there some information about a timeline available?"

AutoDESK never said that they will offer a fix

AutoDESK will never talk about timelines for new features or fixes

and you are taling here with other users like you only (for usual).

[cadffm]

>>"several of our customers reported that behaviour recently"

[cadffm]

You can hope that the incidents are related to the problem described here,
then you can easily bypass it for the future as described.

[cadffm]

>>"and would be very thankful if it would be solved in the next update or service pack."

[cadffm]

You are funny.

[cadffm]

1. NEXT update? Is already written

[cadffm]

2. The Bug I described is old as the feature of Bedit himself. We talking about 15years, it's probably not at the top of the list (it was fixed in 2010-2012 and not a problem in 2006 -  if I am right)

[cadffm]

3. Don't wait for AutoDESK in this case, tell all users to disable the incremental save option (isavebak=0), easy to do, works from now.

[cadffm]

>>"Is there some information about a timeline available?"

[cadffm]

AutoDESK never said that they will offer a fix

[cadffm]

AutoDESK will never talk about timelines for new features or fixes

[cadffm]

and you are taling here with other users like you only (for usual).

[cadffm]

Update: AutoDESK documented a fix about it in 2022.1.2 😀

I don't know why (I will ask), but this statement seems to be wrong 😒

2022.1.2

Imported images now display correctly when using IMAGEATTACH to import georeferenced files (TIF) in AutoCAD 2022 Update 1.1 or using MAPIINSERT to import the same files in Autodesk Civil 3D 2022 Update 1.1 or AutoCAD Map 3D 2022 Update 1.1.

The internal block content is no longer duplicated after running RECOVER or AUDIT commands in some drawings.

Dropdown lists now display clearly in certain dialog boxes in Windows 11.

Sheet sets containing a drawing with an apostrophe in the file name now publish successfully.

[cadffm]

Update, to 'close' this topic clean
and needs no further comment.

Even if very few stumble upon it or understand it, but it could happen to anyone at any time.After I was finally able to nail down this coreACAD bug, Autodesk reacted immediately and a fix
was already released on February 2022, after 15 years of existence, but just 3-4 month after reporting, wow.

The fix WORKS, IsavePercent>0 can used since 2022.1.2 without any problem.

Only the 2022.1.2 Update description in the ReadMe/Help is technically not quite correct and because of this my Tests 02-03-2022 failed.
It looks like I just tested with a file that already has "Data saved incorrectly" and in this situation it can still occur in 2022.1.2 and later.

I opend a file what have "data saved the wrong way" already inside,
- by Recover => still an issue, duplicates appears
- by open, saved the file => audit yes => still an issue, duplicates appears
but
- by open, save & close the file => also files with "data saved the wrong way" are fixed.
- new files, this problem is no longer possible

(For readers with files that have unexplainable duplicated objects present, there is still no magic button to fix this.

This Thread here is about what's going wrong and how to avoid it)

Thx

[RobDraw]

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@cadffm wrote:

and needs no further comment.

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Hmmm...