Autocad 2016 does it support the classic workspace?

[JohnMcNamara4507]

Hi All

This is my first post here.....

I use Autocad mainly for 3D using solids. Being in Australia my building design suite upgrade is not yet available maybe this month, according to the distributor.

They do not know the answer to this question re the classic workspace!

I would like to know for certain the 2016 version of Autocad supports the classic workspace, If I had to use the ribbon it would slow my workflow terribly, Using the classic workspace I have almost every tool in position around my main screen (I use 4 monitors in total) this gives me a desktop showing other views of the object and my properties palletes for the pbject being drawn while keeping my main screen clear for editing.

My classic menu system is set up so that for almost all the operations I perform there is an Icon to click directly, (The ribbon makes you page through its various modes to find a simple command)...  Terribly slow and annoying

I sometimes use Autocad Architecture. With the ribbon unfortunately. when I do my drawing speed goes into slow motion. I hate it.

Can someone please confirm that the classic menu system is still available within Autocad 2016?

Thank You

Regards

John McNamara

[RobDraw]

For every user that cannot let go of the past, there are thousands embracing the future.

[JohnMcNamara4507]

Lets think about the screens we us now they are all getting wider but not taller. My laptop is a case in point, to use the ribbon on a wide screen laptop takes up far too much headroom.

The same applies to desktop screens, In my case I use 4, Autocad graphics sit on the left two a single model viewport in each one above the other, the other two screens are set with Autocad layers, Xrefs, properties, the current directory and other menus on the the bottom right screen I leave them up all the time. The top right screen I use for images of the project and web searching.

I like to put all the buttons used most on the left hand edge of the left graphic screens apart from one row of buttons across the top.

This setup allows me to do 95% of my work within one click. or via the command line.

My only wish is that Paperspace windows worked better with multiple screens, I have not found a way to make them Zoom into the lower left screen, so a bit of dragging is needed to position the window, after you have zoomed in to make a detail change.

Another program i use does this well, not withstanding the fact the I have extended the desktop across multiple screens. in windows setup so it can be done.  

Regards
John

[RobDraw]

We are talking about an interface and an ability to adapt, which is very subjective. Some might even say that the ability to adapt and make the best of changing situations is a good thing.

I can't wait to see the complaints when the command line goes away.

[chriscowgill7373]

Hopefully any changes to the command line are 25-30 years away, because that is when it will be time for me to retire.  The most used commands, even if they are in the ribbon, get added to an alias so I can keyboard it and don thave to look through the ribbon, especially for repetative tasks, such as editing feature line pi elevations.  its a pain when you have a lot of them to keep going back and forth to the ribbon, no matter where it is.

as for space the ribbon takes up, why does one not set it to autohide along the sides of the interface, it would restore that vertical space.  you could even set it so it doesnt autohide and has a fixed width for that matter.

[Anonymous]

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@RobDraw wrote:

For every user that cannot let go of the past, there are thousands embracing the future.

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... and those embracing a less efficient future interface keep us in business.  Change simply for the sake of change is ALWAYS a bad idea.  If it does not come with improvements in production efficiency or a reduction in errors, change is NOT a good thing and the future is better without it. We could have "embraced the future" and adopted the whole "annotative" lunacy, but that represented a huge loss in productivity that will never be recovered by the annotative concept.  It will never be as efficient as annotating 3D models in PS.  We could have jumped on the "future" and adopted the VIEWBASE debacle for or 3D models, but that is even a worse waste or productivity trying to tweak 4 or 5 dozen views of a model through that short-sighted "improvement".

Things like the ribbon may be great for people just learning the application, (or are missing a hand), but for those of us already well versed in the application and are running a heavily customized system where less than a quarter of the design input comes from an AutoCAD menu, the ribbon is little more than a waste of drafting area, and ALL of it could have been accomplished without eating screen space.

As for the demise of the command line, people have been predicting such since R13 (that an R13 not 2013) and the advent of the Windows interface.  But Autodesk is smarter than that, knowing that half of their user base would never upgrade to a poorer version of their application, it ain't happenin' any time soon.

[Anonymous]

Excuse me!

You are completely wrong! I have used many interfaces - some are
improvements - some are not! How can 3 separate clicks be more efficient
than one? - it is just not an argument. This of course is subject to exactly
what it is you are trying to complete and results will vary - I am better
placed to make that call thank you.

Few software tweaks add significantly to drawing efficiency - again
subjective - there are exceptions. Revit is one great improvement however
many have still not yet made this step. Simple cad drawings can be simply a
replacement for a hand drawn sketch - at a basic level pencil and paper! Do
we need to update that?! NO

And no I do not use windows XP.

Thank you!



NOTHING FURTHER TO SAY THIS THREAD IS OLD!

THERE ARE WORK AROUNDS - BUT SHOULD I HAVE TO?!

[RobDraw]

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@Anonymous wrote:
NOTHING FURTHER TO SAY THIS THREAD IS OLD!

THERE ARE WORK AROUNDS - BUT SHOULD I HAVE TO?!

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Nothing more to say but you ask a question to close?

I don't know what workarounds you are talking about, but with all of the ways that the interface can be customized, one should be able find a way to work efficiently without relying on something that is getting outdated. Just be careful, all the hard work put into customizing might not work in the future.

[Anonymous]

Mmmm maybe not a suitable ending!

I asked the question initially some time ago as none of the suggestions
worked. I have since come to realise that no matter what customers ask for
in a product there will always be 'others' who knows best! All I know is
that in our office with varying ages and ability levels there is a definite
jump in performance between people who take the time to learn and take on
board new ideas (whether they then use this if actual improvements can be
made or not), and those that just plod away with no self guided learning
what so ever. (Having worked for a number of firms who simply do not have
any ongoing training, as this is seen as loss of productive time and costs
money!) I personally do not agree with this of course.

I like to think I actually do explore new improvements and enjoy learning
especially when it means I can get work done more efficiently!

Also another issue that occurs in relation to Autocad is that with many
licenses of various versions within a single office - training if there was
any would be affected. Another related example of this issue is that after
incorporating catering information into drawings all Autocad LT 2014
machines have been infected with the Education License Stamp glitch that
then plots on all drawings subsequently opened in pre 2014 machines. This is
rather embarrassing coming from a professional office. The only working
solution is to use Autodesk Trueview software to batch save full packs of
dwgs which is not very convenient. Alternativley I understand a full format
and reinstall has worked but who has the time for that?! I feel this is
outrageous as I assume guys on here will just say 'well buy the latest
version!' well no - there are many who cannot and object to the monthly fee
set up having already bought a product!. Oh yes this is another improvement!
Ha!

Bottom line I am afraid if technological tweaks are not improving efficiency
then they are changes for the sake of changes!

I can see there are many people on both sides of this argument from comments
back already!

Good luck!

[RobDraw]

I knew you couldn't just walk away.

[DransEnergie]

No need to be agressive, I am myself satisfied with both interfaces and I don't complain or need help about that at all. I was just suggesting than instead of being resistant an passing time to find tricks and keep your habits maybe it's worth to make the step, and not only trying, I mean a real switch.

Just keep in mind that you probably will be forced to do the steps whatever you want, the old interface will disapear more and more, because that's how Autodesk want it even you don't agree.

That's up to you to choice what you want as long you know what is going on. I don't want to convince conservative people, I already worked to much in IT for that. You don't want then ok, in the end it's not my problem, but don't blame for something comming and that you're aware since many years (2009-2017)...

That said if you're searching efficiency and try to get yourself more quicker: the command line is your friend, it's the most powerfull thing if you master it. Then you don't need any ribbon or old interface...

oblique747: I agree with you, mistakes can be made by everyone, even Autodesk, and I'm first to report when something is going wrong, like you I also got various issues but I'm still generaly satisfied by ACAD. Not sure it's better somewhere else... and I'm pretty sure they don't make changes for the sake of making changes, they are just guys like you and me, avoiding unuseful things and trying to make things better but you can't be approved by 100% of the customers. The fact is that the ribbon users was already at 54% in 2009, now the classic interface is a little minority. The forums are biased because you only see the ones that complain, there are plenty of sick people in a hospital, it doesn't mean everyone is sick.

[JohnMcNamara4507]

The reason this forum thread and many others talking about the same issues continues is that users of the software wish to protect their substantial investment in time into learning the software and adapting it to fit their individual needs. I suspect everyone has tried working with the ribbon and found it is not as efficient as the rather more adaptable classic interface and have made the decision after careful consideration. I cannot imagine anyone doggedly sticking to the classic workspace if they thought the ribbon was better.

The ribbon forces you to use extra finds and extra clicks to do tasks that are one click away from completion with a single purpose button. and it takes up a lot of screen space.
Thinking back to when AutoCad came on floppies there was the old multi level, it tried to be contextual, right hand text menu system. I guess there are not many users of that system now, graphic buttons were better.

In a way the ribbon is similar it tries to be massively contextual, a bit of a throwback to the old side panel now with graphics!
The ribbon is designed on the assumption that it it is offering you what you should be using next. That would be fine if we all worked the same way and did the same job in the same industry. 

Software should take into account that any skilled designer assembles his tools carefully, were you to compare one designers tools to those of another like skilled individual you would find many differences, as there should be. We all assemble our toolboxes to fit our individual needs.

Maybe one day the ribbon will get a makeover that makes it more flexible, One day.....

[JohnMcNamara4507]

Hi All
If you search the following phrase on Google you will find references to a new simplified and customize-able ribbon. Microsoft the originators of the ribbon have had a rethink.

Microsoft Is Cutting The Ribbon In Word, Excel & Outlook

Its taken a while!  Heads up Autodesk

Regards
John

[JohnMcNamara4507]

Hi All
Thought I should post a link to Microsoft's blog re the ribbon changes.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2018/06/13/power-and-simplicity-updates-to-the-of...
It took 11 years but in the end the users spoke and they finally reacted.
Backtracking is never easy.
Regards
John

[RobDraw]

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@JohnMcNamara4507 wrote:

The reason this forum thread and many others talking about the same issues continues is that users of the software wish to protect their substantial investment in time into learning the software and adapting it to fit their individual needs. I suspect everyone has tried working with the ribbon and found it is not as efficient as the rather more adaptable classic interface and have made the decision after careful consideration. I cannot imagine anyone doggedly sticking to the classic workspace if they thought the ribbon was better.

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For every one of the die hards that refuse to actually learn how to use new technology and let the old go away, there are many times more others that have established highly efficient workflows without toolbars.

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@JohnMcNamara4507 wrote:

The ribbon forces you to use extra finds and extra clicks to do tasks that are one click away from completion with a single purpose button. and it takes up a lot of screen space.

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Those who have learned the new interface know that one does not have to rely on the ribbon. In fact, it can be collapsed when not being used and, btw, it is customizable. Keyboard shortcuts, command line auto complete, and, my personal favorite, the right click contextual menu.

[JohnMcNamara4507]

Hi All

Let us consider the ribbon itself as an interface tool attached to any piece of software. How many computer users use it? it is attached to countless many different software packages.

Office must be at the top of the list with 1.2 billion users. then there are all the other packages developed using Microsoft development tools.

I Googled the following search phrase
Microsoft office usage statistics

1.2 billion office users give or take?

The office developers will no doubt have spent a small fortune in time and money live testing any changes to the ribbon. now they are acting on the results of their investigations.

In my opinion the ribbon has always been an inefficient screen hungry Swiss army knife kind of tool, Heavy, bulky, and not easy to use, inefficient. The changes proposed by its inventor confirm I am not alone. 

Time will tell if the changes are a genuine improvement, lets hope the designers get it right.
Given the user numbers even a one percent improvement in user time taken to do a task would make a measurable improvement to world GDP.

Regards
John