Re: Autocad 2015/2016 2d mostly - Page 3

Anonymous · ‎06-03-2015

Hi there,

I am using i5 - 4690 , intel hd 4600 gpu that is comming with the i5, 2x4mb = total of 8 for the dual channel dd3 memory at 1600 Mhz.

dedicated mem for the intel hd 4600 is 1gb

Drawing only on 2d.

i should point out that the intel hd 4600 is doing pretty ok except when there are larger files , for example 11mb dwg, then it lags when zoom out and panning and moving the screen.

That is with hardware acceleration ON.

with the hardware acceleration off its doing pretty ok even then , almost no lag.

in this matter 2016 is doing much better than 2015, i guess some improving was made with the copy, 2015 almost make my pc unsuable, while 2016 handles the copy with easy except panning the screen and zooming in and out. when zoomtoo closly actually works pretty ok( guess less lines on the screen)

So before many of you say , why dont i disable the hardware acceleration, let me say why i don't want to .

When disable hardware acceleration, try to copy bigger detail with many lines in it.

it takes time brfore that detail appears next to the cursor, its buggy glitchy or its just not working as good as with the hardware acceleration on.

also while moving arround it leaves pixels as trail, totally not cool as with using the acceleration on.

works much faster but quality is so bad.

i guess its all about the drivers. have no clue what is the deal behind it and its really to complicated to find enouhg information

i tried using direct x9 , i did not see any difference at all. ( now even consider getting directx 9 video card if es extremly cheap, no matter autodesk saying wont works as fast as directx 11 , i really didnt see any diff)

so my question is , if i take for example quadro k600 or k620 , the card looks close in performance with the intel HD 4600 , will it work good as a charm with bigger 2d drawings with acceleration ON or i will just waste my money ?

also should i consider getting older , cheaper quadro but using directx10 ( will that be total waste of money )

Can anyone experienced give me more info ?

Or explain me what i need for good 2d big drwaings to consider when looking for video card. However i really preffer its compatible with the hardware acceleration on , mean to works good, not slowing cuz of the hardware acceleration is being ON.

Pls only ppl that know what they are talking about and please give answers with more data and explanation, thanks.

ToanDN · ‎06-10-2015

"today i was looking at the mem usage from task manager, i got like 2gb of free ram when load the file."
You won't see 10GB (2+8) free RAM when you have 16GB of RAM, more like 5-6GB free, trust me. Windows and AutoCAD will find a way to optimize the more RAM you have and that is why you computer will run more smoothly.

"i got 4 slots on the motherboard , so i can upgrade, but i was reading that if i use the 4 slots the speed of the memory will drop down to 1000Mhz 😞
that sux."

Not sure where you were reading that but it sounds like pure BS. All four RAM slots should have the same speed. The only ways for the speed to drop is putting a slower stick into one of them. Basically the theoretical RAM speed is the top speed of yur slots, or the RAM, whatever is lower.

"i shouldnt get 2x4 and get only 1 8 gb chip 😞 didnt know if i use the 4 slots the transfer will drop 😞

now i am kind of fked 🙂 cuz i think anyway to put an dedicated video card ."

You have to get 2 or 4 sticks of RAM for dual channel setup. I don't think 3 would work. Your $200 or $4000 dedicated videocard would go in a PCI Express lot, not a RAM slot.

Anonymous · ‎06-10-2015

@Anonymous wrote:

"i got 4 slots on the motherboard , so i can upgrade, but i was reading that if i use the 4 slots the speed of the memory will drop down to 1000Mhz 😞

that sux."

The previous post is obviously correct - it will run at the specified speed since your motherboard can obviously handle it if you have an i5-4690. You have 4 slots and your original post said you have 2x4gb sticks. Either buy 2 more 4GB sticks (preferably the same thing if you can find it) or replace your current ones with 2x8gb sticks which would leave 2 slots open for future expansion. You need to check your motherboard manual to see which 2 slots to use so you are sure it runs dual channel. If you decide to buy 2x8gb, buy good ol' DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) and stop obsessing about the ram speed. It will run at 1333 unless you turn on XMP through your bios to get it to run at 1600. You can get 16GB of good quality memory like Corsair for less than $100.00 right now.

"another thing is to get some very old 10dirctx quadro like 1700 or 1800 for very low price just to test 🙂 but most likely will be 1gb of memory."
"now question is what is better, old quadro firepro or newer gamer card ."

Why in the world would you buy a card that is several years old? You can get a FirePro W4100 or a quadro k620 for the exact same $160.00 on sites like Amazon. You are throwing your money away if you buy old, outdated hardware. So for about $250.00 you could have 16gb ram and a very good card with 2gb vram. Or you could throw your money away on something like a quadro 1800, which I believe came out in 2004.

Anonymous · ‎06-11-2015

about the ram i am pretty sure if the motherboard use the 4 channels speed will drop, cuz i was reading the motherboard manual and something like that was stated.

thats why i said i had to buy 1 x 8gb ram so now i could upgrade with another 1x8gb and make total of 16gb ram.

now my option is to buy additional 2x4gb sticks , but that will make them run slower 😞 thats what the motherboard manual was saying, i am going to find it and post it here. ( in this scenario i guess its still better to use RAM than virtual memory - should be still faster or i am mistaken)

how to find out what will be better , 8gb 1600mhz or 16gb at 1000mhz 🙂

that is a mood breaker for an upgrade 🙂 , i dont want to throw 2x4 gb to get 2x8 😞 nor i want to add 2x4gb to make total 16gb cuz the speed will drop.

btw the motherboard supports max of 16gb. thats why i bought the 2x4gb memory sticks so i can have space for upgrade up to 16 if i decide and to be using the dual channel bonus meantime, however i wasn't aware of the too many slots motherboard drop speed problem 😞

about the video card i agree there is no point to be getting directx10

the question is will k600 be enough or i need to look for better class firepro , cheaper, or go amd r7 ( cuz amd got better double precission )

Anonymous · ‎06-11-2015

You are overthinking the problem way too much

ToanDN · ‎06-11-2015

Download this free program to view your hardware specs. It will tell you your RAM clockspeed, single, dual, or tripple channel, so you can justify how to upgrade it.

http://www.piriform.com/speccy/download

Anonymous · ‎06-11-2015

@Anonymous wrote:

"about the ram i am pretty sure if the motherboard use the 4 channels speed will drop, cuz i was reading the motherboard manual and something like that was stated."

I find this hard to believe - in fact, it's not true. Your memory will run at the speed of the slowest stick, which is why you install it in dual channel pairs. If you have ram sticks of different speeds, the motherboard will run all the sticks at the slowest speed. If you buy 4x8gb identical sticks, your ram will run at the same speed if you install just 2 of the sticks or all 4 of them. If you have the manual, you must know what motherboard you have. Can you tell us what it is?

"the question is will k600 be enough or i need to look for better class firepro , cheaper, or go amd r7 ( cuz amd got better double precission )"

It will be enough. Why would you buy a k600 over a k620 when the 620 is newer, has double the vram, and is only $25.00 more?

Anonymous · ‎06-11-2015

for the ppl that never got deep into how motherboard works 🙂 *hope this is funny not offensive * 🙂

www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4928#sp

Quote: Support for Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) memory modules
* If four single-sided DDR3 1600 MHz memory modules are installed, the maximum memory speed will be limited to 1066 MHz.

btw why single sided ? maybe if there are 4 sticks dual channel is not working or there is an option in the bios where to enable dual mode, and if not enalbed its Single mode then speed drops. here what is stated in the manual:

Enabeling

Dual Channel memory mode will double the original memory bandwidth.

The four DDR3 memory sockets are divided into two channels and each channel has two memory sockets as

following:

Channel A: DDR3_1, DDR3_3

Channel B: DDR3_2, DDR3_4

then there is this table
Dual Channel Memory Configurations Table
DDR3_4 DDR3_2 DDR3_3 DDR3_1
Two modules: -- DS/SS -- DS/SS

Four modules SS SS SS SS

(SS-Single Sided , DS - Double-sided, --"No Memory")

When enabling Dual Channel mode with two or four memory modules, it is recommended that memory

of the same capacity, brand, speed, and chips be used and installed in the same colored DDR3 sockets.

For optimum performance, when enabling Dual Channel mode with two memory modules, be sure to

install them in the DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 sockets

here says dual channel mode with four moemory modules.

i am kind of confused.

how do u think , is it possible dual mode with 4 modules and will the speed drops ?

or thats only if the 4 modules are not enabled into dual speed mode ?

about the k620 totally right if i am getting a new card not old one. cuz k600 i can find old but i dont think i can find a new k620.

k620 makes very good choice if dont go for firepro w4100. Best match is *maybe overkill* w5100 but its 300$ i dont think i need so much such a powerfull card right now.

gotta do some research k600 and k620 vs firepro w4100 ( however w4100 using minidiplay ports and not sure if the card is comming with some cable for hdi dvi ) if not that makes the card even more expensive.

so now the question stays, what would be better 8gb at 1600 mhz or 16gb at 1066Mhz , what do u think ?

ToanDN · ‎06-12-2015

@Anonymous wrote:

for the ppl that never got deep into how motherboard works 🙂 *hope this is funny not offensive * 🙂

www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4928#sp

Quote: Support for Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) memory modules
* If four single-sided DDR3 1600 MHz memory modules are installed, the maximum memory speed will be limited to 1066 MHz.

btw why single sided ? maybe if there are 4 sticks dual channel is not working or there is an option in the bios where to enable dual mode, and if not enalbed its Single mode then speed drops. here what is stated in the manual:

Enabeling

Dual Channel memory mode will double the original memory bandwidth.

The four DDR3 memory sockets are divided into two channels and each channel has two memory sockets as

following:

Channel A: DDR3_1, DDR3_3

Channel B: DDR3_2, DDR3_4

then there is this table
Dual Channel Memory Configurations Table
    DDR3_4    DDR3_2     DDR3_3    DDR3_1
Two modules:   --    DS/SS         --             DS/SS

                 Four modules   SS            SS           SS            SS

(SS-Single Sided , DS - Double-sided, --"No Memory")

When enabling Dual Channel mode with two or four memory modules, it is recommended that memory

of the same capacity, brand, speed, and chips be used and installed in the same colored DDR3 sockets.

For optimum performance, when enabling Dual Channel mode with two memory modules, be sure to

install them in the DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 sockets

here says dual channel mode with four moemory modules.

i am kind of confused.

how do u think , is it possible dual mode with 4 modules and will the speed drops ?

or thats only if the 4 modules are not enabled into dual speed mode ?

Open your box and see if you have single or double-sided RAMs. I bet they are double-sided since single-sided are rare. If so, try adding 2 more double-sided sticks then the speed won't drop. Borrow from another computer to test if you can.

Anonymous · ‎06-12-2015

wait a sec. so you saying there are 2 kind of RAM modules ? 1sided and 2 sided ?

i thought that is about the memory slots, if is 1 stick 1 sided , if 2 sticks double sided

so my lack of knowlege confuse me here ?

i thought , dual channel = 2 sticks working on one line = double sided

4 sticks , dual channel not possible = 4 sticks 1 sided 🙂

i get this totally wrong ? its about the memory chip ? i am going to google this.

i hope my mem is double sided , and i will be able to use the full speed when i add 2x4gb sticks.

however i have readed at other places that 2 sticks works better than 4 sticks.

and maybe thats why i assumed that the speed will drop with 4 sticks after reading the statement into the manual.

now , is there anyone with deep knowlege into motherboards to check my manual and tell me if there will be any different if i am using 2x8gb memory sticks or 4x4gb memory sticks in performance ?

thanks a lot.

i can't really comprenhate this yet, but i think if i use 4 stick, they will be treated as single sided and speed will drops. Am i right ?

btw i just tested the file into a friends laptop with i7-4710hq , 16GB of mem and 4gb video card nvidia 860m

the performance was bad, maybe compared to my pc , worse. then i saw he have not installed the nvidia drivers, and was using the hd 4600 drivers,

that means memory wont help much if video is lacking 🙂

i guess my i5-4690 is also better than i7-4710hq aswell.

m_kingdon · ‎06-12-2015

I think this topic should be posted in a computer forum like Overclockers or something. If a computer runs CAD, it runs CAD! As long as it runs and performs all functions correctly without lag then that is all that matters. None of this nonsense regarding the shape of RAM chips and motherboards, this is not relevant to your CAD workflow.

Instead of looking into computer specifications in insane detail you should look into your CAD abilities and workflow. The most important part of the working process is you, not your sodding graphics card and motherboard.

Mike Kingdon
Civil 3D Zealot

Anonymous · ‎06-12-2015

so maybe you should apply for moderator position

now please back to the topic. thanks

m_kingdon · ‎06-12-2015

The reason why I post this is not because I want posts to be in the right place, it is because I used to suffer (and still do occasionally) from analysis paralysis and the similar condition of GAS (gear acquisition syndrome). Both are regarding the obsession with specification and details that are not important.

I think it is mainly the fault of marketing. Adverts commissioned by technology companies are designed to make you think you need the latest hardware and your current hardware is obsolete. This just isn't the case! Being a geek I am very interested in computers and specifications, I used to spend many evenings looking into hardware specifications, but then I relised that really they all do the same thing. Honestly just try and take onboard what I am trying to say to you. You and your workflow is 10x more important than your computer. Stop looking up specifications and instead spend your time developing your CAD skills. Trust me it is a much better investment of your time!

Mike Kingdon
Civil 3D Zealot

Anonymous · ‎06-12-2015

"Quote: Support for Extreme Memory Profile (XMP) memory modules
* If four single-sided DDR3 1600 MHz memory modules are installed, the maximum memory speed will be limited to 1066 MHz."

All this means is that you will not get the 1600 speed (even though it may be marketed that way) unless you enable XMP.

Most likely you will not find single sided memory anywhere - in fact, manufacturer's don't even list it so you don't care. There will be no difference in performance between 4x4gb or 2x8gb assuming the 4x4 are identical. 2x8gb is a better option because it allows you to add another 16 later if you want.

Assuming you need standard 240 pin ram, buy something like one of these, set XMP in your bios and get it over with:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233280

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231568

Seriously, you don't need to keep obsessing about the ram.

And heed the advice of m.kingdon in the prior post. Buy something, install it, and forget about it.

Anonymous · ‎06-23-2015

Here are some updates

for ppl that may find it interesting :

gigabyte respond to my question about the memory:

Dear Stefan,

Thank you for your kindly mail and inquiry. If four identical memories are installed, the BIOS will automatically detect and enable dual channel mode. If you want to install four memories, please make sure to choose single-sided memory. (it does not support four sticks of double-sided memory) If you are not sure, you can contact the memory manufacturer to double check. After installing four sticks of DDR3 1600 MHz memory modules, the maximum memory speed will be limited to 1066 MHz.

Regards,
GIGABY..TE

sad 😞 i am kind of fked 😞

also the file i was working on had some embeded word OLE objects * pictures * that was making the file heavy, once i deleted them it dropped down to 5mb size and was running more smoothly . still not as fast as lighter files but pretty ok compared to before that.

could be that autocad is not really well with embeded objects.

still dont like the intel HD gpu cra..p. i have the feeling nothing works good with it. even browsers give bad picture.

gotta upgrade it soon.

nrz13 · ‎06-23-2015

I think the best way to manage images and other documents is via the External References palette in AutoCAD. It links to the original source rather than embedding it, so your drawing file size remains small while the external images can easily be updated without having to mess with your drawing.

Work: AutoCAD 2022.1.3, Windows 10 Pro v22H2 64-bit, Intel Core i7-8700K, 32GB RAM, Samsung 960 Pro SSD, AMD Radeon Pro WX 5100, 3 Dell Monitors (3840x2160)
Home: AutoCAD 2022.1.3, Windows 10 Pro v22H2 64-bit, Intel Core i7-11700, 64GB RAM, Samsung 980 Pro SSD, NVIDIA Quadro P2200, Dell Monitor (3840x2160)

Autocad 2015/2016 2d mostly

Autocad 2015/2016 2d mostly

Autocad 2015/2016 2d mostly

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