2017 Blocks inserted using Tool Palettes create Noplot layers

[Tekcon13]

New issue with Autocad 2017: 

When inserting a block (electrical symbol) from a Tool Palette, if the block's layer is not already defined in the drawing, the symbol layer is created as a Noplot layer.

Been using Tool Palettes for years and have never seen this particular quirk.

All the electrical symbols are in one master library drawing.  The layers in that drawing are all set as plottable.  I also made sure that the current layer of the drawing into which I was inserting the symbol was not set to Noplot, just in case the new layer was being created based on the current layer settings.  The new layer still got set to Noplot.

If the symbol layers are created before the symbol is inserted, inserting a symbol from the tool palette doesn't affect the preset layer settings.

The trouble is, as we are used to the layer being created properly in previous versions of Autocad, and Noplot layers presenting on screen as if they were plottable (ie. not faded or a different colour to indicate the Noplot status - HINT, HINT Autodesk!), drawings are getting plotted with missing symbols.

Anyone else noticing this behaviour?

[Tekcon13]

New issue with Autocad 2017: 

When inserting a block (electrical symbol) from a Tool Palette, if the block's layer is not already defined in the drawing, the symbol layer is created as a Noplot layer.

Been using Tool Palettes for years and have never seen this particular quirk.

All the electrical symbols are in one master library drawing.  The layers in that drawing are all set as plottable.  I also made sure that the current layer of the drawing into which I was inserting the symbol was not set to Noplot, just in case the new layer was being created based on the current layer settings.  The new layer still got set to Noplot.

If the symbol layers are created before the symbol is inserted, inserting a symbol from the tool palette doesn't affect the preset layer settings.

The trouble is, as we are used to the layer being created properly in previous versions of Autocad, and Noplot layers presenting on screen as if they were plottable (ie. not faded or a different colour to indicate the Noplot status - HINT, HINT Autodesk!), drawings are getting plotted with missing symbols.

Anyone else noticing this behaviour?

[Anonymous]

I'm glad to hear that the problem has been solved, but now I'm curious as to how this will affect those of us that have modified our palettes via the workaround.  I'm assuming we'll need to go back and revert the changes we made previously.  This will be a major issue to those of us that manage more than 50 users.

[Anonymous]

I'm glad to hear that the problem has been solved, but now I'm curious as to how this will affect those of us that have modified our palettes via the workaround.  I'm assuming we'll need to go back and revert the changes we made previously.  This will be a major issue to those of us that manage more than 50 users.

[Sofia.Xanthopoulou]

Good Point, @Anonymous,

I'll get you an answer for this...

Regards

[Sofia.Xanthopoulou]

Good Point, @Anonymous,

I'll get you an answer for this...

Regards

[m_rogoff]

The "workaround" should reset the coding to be normal behavior, which would be the same as if you were creating the Tool Palette from scratch. I would believe the update will not affect your T/P's after you performed the Find/Replace in Notepad. 

How are you managing your Tool Palettes? They should be setup so you can manage one for the entire company (saved on the server); having 50+ users compared to 1 user should not add any additional work (for the workaround or for making changes or updates to your T/P). Let me know if you need help on how to setup and share palettes among the entire company.

[m_rogoff]

The "workaround" should reset the coding to be normal behavior, which would be the same as if you were creating the Tool Palette from scratch. I would believe the update will not affect your T/P's after you performed the Find/Replace in Notepad. 

How are you managing your Tool Palettes? They should be setup so you can manage one for the entire company (saved on the server); having 50+ users compared to 1 user should not add any additional work (for the workaround or for making changes or updates to your T/P). Let me know if you need help on how to setup and share palettes among the entire company.

[Jhallock!]

I'm interested in how you are sharing your tool palettes on the server.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[Jhallock!]

I'm interested in how you are sharing your tool palettes on the server.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[Anonymous]

I manage our tool palettes in a single location on the network, the potential issue is how the update would handle this.  If it is simply reversing the read of value from false to true (or reverse of that) then there would be an issue with any user not updated to the most current version.  Managing and editing the palettes is easy, having all users leave their machines turned on and logged off at the exact same time (most likely during my weekend) so that I can deploy updates is the hard part.

So all I'm really asking for is a quick summary of how the fix is handling this particular bug so that I can plan accordingly.

[Anonymous]

I manage our tool palettes in a single location on the network, the potential issue is how the update would handle this.  If it is simply reversing the read of value from false to true (or reverse of that) then there would be an issue with any user not updated to the most current version.  Managing and editing the palettes is easy, having all users leave their machines turned on and logged off at the exact same time (most likely during my weekend) so that I can deploy updates is the hard part.

So all I'm really asking for is a quick summary of how the fix is handling this particular bug so that I can plan accordingly.

[Anonymous]

If you have your users setup as an enterprise cui you can push out a refresh using RELOADENTERPRISECUI. You could add this to a acadlsp.doc if that is how you are setup, just be sure to remove the code or setup a check system to see that it has been in fact reloaded.

To expand on this. Check user name in a txt file, if not present, reload cui and add username to txt file.

[Anonymous]

If you have your users setup as an enterprise cui you can push out a refresh using RELOADENTERPRISECUI. You could add this to a acadlsp.doc if that is how you are setup, just be sure to remove the code or setup a check system to see that it has been in fact reloaded.

To expand on this. Check user name in a txt file, if not present, reload cui and add username to txt file.

[m_rogoff]

First of all, I recommend only having one person allowed access to make changes. It gets a bit dicey if more than one person has access (addressed in last paragraph). It is important to note that all changes to the Tool Palettes are saved in the .ATC files once Autocad is closed. If more than one person is in Autocad, the T/P files will reflect the changes from the last person to close the program. For this reason, I set the main folder on the server to Read-Only so no one else can make changes.

Save the T/P folder on the server. Make Read-Only to all users. Everyone should be pathed to this folder (type OPTIONS / "Files" tab / "Tool Palettes File Locations") see attached pic, which may be saved in the Enterprise.CUI for quick mass updates.

The "Owner" of the Tool Palettes should save the folder to their desktop and set their path here (not Read-Only).

When the "Owner" makes changes and closes Autocad, all files are updated to your local desktop. Then just copy and overwrite all Tool Palette (.ATC files) and Image files to the server location. Once changes are made, users must close and re-open Autocad to see these changes.

If there is more than one person allowed to make changes, I suggest to keep the master copies on your desktop and communicate when changes are being made. Let me know if you need any further clarification or if something doesn't make sense.

[m_rogoff]

First of all, I recommend only having one person allowed access to make changes. It gets a bit dicey if more than one person has access (addressed in last paragraph). It is important to note that all changes to the Tool Palettes are saved in the .ATC files once Autocad is closed. If more than one person is in Autocad, the T/P files will reflect the changes from the last person to close the program. For this reason, I set the main folder on the server to Read-Only so no one else can make changes.

Save the T/P folder on the server. Make Read-Only to all users. Everyone should be pathed to this folder (type OPTIONS / "Files" tab / "Tool Palettes File Locations") see attached pic, which may be saved in the Enterprise.CUI for quick mass updates.

The "Owner" of the Tool Palettes should save the folder to their desktop and set their path here (not Read-Only).

When the "Owner" makes changes and closes Autocad, all files are updated to your local desktop. Then just copy and overwrite all Tool Palette (.ATC files) and Image files to the server location. Once changes are made, users must close and re-open Autocad to see these changes.

If there is more than one person allowed to make changes, I suggest to keep the master copies on your desktop and communicate when changes are being made. Let me know if you need any further clarification or if something doesn't make sense.

[Jhallock!]

This is similar to how we are set up. Except we have all the our blocks on the server & shared/updated there (only 1 person gets access to this). The master T/P's are on the server (only the same person can edit), But only for users to copy to their machine. This way they can do some simple customization if they want and not affect others. This is a pain when setting it up on every machine, but only 10-15 users here. We are still developing our palettes so this does get annoying when we update something.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[Jhallock!]

This is similar to how we are set up. Except we have all the our blocks on the server & shared/updated there (only 1 person gets access to this). The master T/P's are on the server (only the same person can edit), But only for users to copy to their machine. This way they can do some simple customization if they want and not affect others. This is a pain when setting it up on every machine, but only 10-15 users here. We are still developing our palettes so this does get annoying when we update something.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[m_rogoff]

Yes, all blocks should be saved on the server. I have a working file that contains all of my blocks, when I edit blocks I do it in this file and WBlock it to the block folder on the server. 

We don't allow user customization bc of what you mentioned about updates. We have about 60 users among 3 offices and this method is very easy to use, even remotely

[m_rogoff]

Yes, all blocks should be saved on the server. I have a working file that contains all of my blocks, when I edit blocks I do it in this file and WBlock it to the block folder on the server. 

We don't allow user customization bc of what you mentioned about updates. We have about 60 users among 3 offices and this method is very easy to use, even remotely

[Jhallock!]

In order to use your method would I need to reinstall Autocad as an enterprise install? Or would it require me to just setup the enterprise cui? I have not done a ton of work with the cui, and none with an network deployment/ enterprise setup, so please forgive my ignorance.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[Jhallock!]

In order to use your method would I need to reinstall Autocad as an enterprise install? Or would it require me to just setup the enterprise cui? I have not done a ton of work with the cui, and none with an network deployment/ enterprise setup, so please forgive my ignorance.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[m_rogoff]

The Enterprise CUI is a whole new discussion. I suggest doing research online or browsing these forums for more info. In a nut-shell, No, you do not need to reinstall Autocad, it is a simple setting in OPTIONS (see attached pic). You need to create a new Enterprise CUI and save it on the server, then have users path to it as shown in the picture. The Enterprise CUI contains macros, shortcuts, buttons, etc. that are shared among the entire office. The default Acad.CUI located on the users C:\ drive is meant for customizing to the user's settings. You can also modify Workspaces for further personal customization.

As long as the "Tool Palette File Locations" path is set correctly for each user (shown in the pic towards the bottom) they will see updates among the Tool Palettes. I miss-spoke, an Enterprise CUI is not necessary to share Tool Palettes.

[m_rogoff]

The Enterprise CUI is a whole new discussion. I suggest doing research online or browsing these forums for more info. In a nut-shell, No, you do not need to reinstall Autocad, it is a simple setting in OPTIONS (see attached pic). You need to create a new Enterprise CUI and save it on the server, then have users path to it as shown in the picture. The Enterprise CUI contains macros, shortcuts, buttons, etc. that are shared among the entire office. The default Acad.CUI located on the users C:\ drive is meant for customizing to the user's settings. You can also modify Workspaces for further personal customization.

As long as the "Tool Palette File Locations" path is set correctly for each user (shown in the pic towards the bottom) they will see updates among the Tool Palettes. I miss-spoke, an Enterprise CUI is not necessary to share Tool Palettes.

[Anonymous]

This is now off topic but...

Our company setup.

• User CUI is stored on individual's computer
• Enterprise CUI is stored on Network. (1 User has the enterprise CUI setup as their primary in order to quickly push out updates.)
• All users have tool palette picker added in order to toggle between the TP as needed.

I can update the whole office really quickly since I have also added a button that reloads the enterprise CUI when I make changes, no need to restart AutoCAD or push files out to individual computers. Example code below:

(defun C:TLP ()
  (vla-put-ToolPalettePath (vla-get-Files (vla-get-Preferences (vlax-get-acad-object))) (strcat (getvar "ROAMABLEROOTPREFIX") "Support\\ToolPalette"))
)

(defun C:TLP_annotation ()
  (command 
    "*_TOOLPALETTEPATH"
    "V:\\AutoCAD\\palettes\\annotation")
)

(defun C:TLP_cmu ()
  (command 
    "*_TOOLPALETTEPATH"
    "V:\\AutoCAD\\palettes\\cmu")
)

^c^c(if (not c:ReloadEnterpriseCui)(load"ReloadEnterpriseCui")) ReloadEnterpriseCui;

[Anonymous]

This is now off topic but...

Our company setup.

• User CUI is stored on individual's computer
• Enterprise CUI is stored on Network. (1 User has the enterprise CUI setup as their primary in order to quickly push out updates.)
• All users have tool palette picker added in order to toggle between the TP as needed.

I can update the whole office really quickly since I have also added a button that reloads the enterprise CUI when I make changes, no need to restart AutoCAD or push files out to individual computers. Example code below:

(defun C:TLP ()
  (vla-put-ToolPalettePath (vla-get-Files (vla-get-Preferences (vlax-get-acad-object))) (strcat (getvar "ROAMABLEROOTPREFIX") "Support\\ToolPalette"))
)

(defun C:TLP_annotation ()
  (command 
    "*_TOOLPALETTEPATH"
    "V:\\AutoCAD\\palettes\\annotation")
)

(defun C:TLP_cmu ()
  (command 
    "*_TOOLPALETTEPATH"
    "V:\\AutoCAD\\palettes\\cmu")
)

^c^c(if (not c:ReloadEnterpriseCui)(load"ReloadEnterpriseCui")) ReloadEnterpriseCui;

[Jhallock!]

Thanks, if I ever get time to look into this more it will come in handy.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[Jhallock!]

Thanks, if I ever get time to look into this more it will come in handy.


James Hallock
Revit/ CAD Manager
Plant Engineering Consultants
(719) 473-7077 x 121
jhallock@planteci.com

[Tekcon13]

Wow!  I came back from vacation to a stack of emails from this thread.

Sofia: 

Good news!  Thank you for your efforts and for keeping us informed.

jhallock: 

Like you, we only have a few seats (5 here), so setting up the enterprise/server tool palettes solution didn't seem worthwhile.  I may still look at it, but I'm actually trying to uncomplicate our Autocad setups, so they are a bit more out-of-the-box as we move on to Revit.

m_rogoff & chauhuh:

Thanks for the detailed info on Enterprise CUI and Server-based Tool Palettes.  Food for thought & much appreciated.

[Tekcon13]

Wow!  I came back from vacation to a stack of emails from this thread.

Sofia: 

Good news!  Thank you for your efforts and for keeping us informed.

jhallock: 

Like you, we only have a few seats (5 here), so setting up the enterprise/server tool palettes solution didn't seem worthwhile.  I may still look at it, but I'm actually trying to uncomplicate our Autocad setups, so they are a bit more out-of-the-box as we move on to Revit.

m_rogoff & chauhuh:

Thanks for the detailed info on Enterprise CUI and Server-based Tool Palettes.  Food for thought & much appreciated.

[JGAo1]

Thanks very much for posting this - it's saved us hours of work repairing our palletes.

[JGAo1]

Thanks very much for posting this - it's saved us hours of work repairing our palletes.

[Anonymous]

Any update on when the fix will be released? Just started deploying all the 2017 building design suite products so we have a mix of versions and the notepad/palette fix has not worked because of that. Have 115 seats affected across 6 international offices. Is there not a hotfix that can be released to address this sooner which is followed up with a service pack?

[Anonymous]

Any update on when the fix will be released? Just started deploying all the 2017 building design suite products so we have a mix of versions and the notepad/palette fix has not worked because of that. Have 115 seats affected across 6 international offices. Is there not a hotfix that can be released to address this sooner which is followed up with a service pack?

[Anonymous]

Solution in posts 10 & 11 should work

Try Copy/Paste from an old Palette to a newly created one (with the most recent version of Cad you are using)

Or don't use new layers that don't exist in your template.

[Anonymous]

Solution in posts 10 & 11 should work

Try Copy/Paste from an old Palette to a newly created one (with the most recent version of Cad you are using)

Or don't use new layers that don't exist in your template.

[Anonymous]

I've already tested the posted solutions which works for the users on 2017, but has the opposite results for users who need to use earlier versions.

[Anonymous]

I've already tested the posted solutions which works for the users on 2017, but has the opposite results for users who need to use earlier versions.

[Anonymous]

Really?!? That is counter-intuitive. If you modify the .ATC file with find/replace it shouldn't be any different no matter what version you use. I've been able to use Tool Palettes backwards compatible, however, you can only edit the Palette with the newest version (it's read only for all old versions). 

How are you sharing your palettes? Maybe this is the issue.

[Anonymous]

Really?!? That is counter-intuitive. If you modify the .ATC file with find/replace it shouldn't be any different no matter what version you use. I've been able to use Tool Palettes backwards compatible, however, you can only edit the Palette with the newest version (it's read only for all old versions). 

How are you sharing your palettes? Maybe this is the issue.

[JGAo1]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I've already tested the posted solutions which works for the users on 2017, but has the opposite results for users who need to use earlier versions.

---

I can confirm Sam's problem with the layers not printing in previous versions of autocad - bu**er 😞

[JGAo1]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I've already tested the posted solutions which works for the users on 2017, but has the opposite results for users who need to use earlier versions.

---

I can confirm Sam's problem with the layers not printing in previous versions of autocad - bu**er 😞