Terminal Strip - jumpered terminal blocks not "condensing common line" to 1 block but spread across all 7 blocks.

[matthew_lomanno]

Hey all,

I’m super green to ACE and I am looking for some help with terminal blocks.  Basically, I have more terminal blocks than needed and I was wondering how I do the appropriate linking to get things “trimmed down” to the “minimum number of terminal blocks needed”.  The terminal blocks I am using are single level.

TLDR:

I have several components all referencing a common AC-L wire.  There are 7 terminal blocks total in my schematic, 1 coming in from the AC connector, and 6 going out (2 PS, 2 fans, and 2 servo).  However, I really only need 4 since they will all be jumpered together (7 connection points with 2 connections per block yielding 4 blocks).  I cant figure out how to get ACE to update the terminal blocks to not have the redundant AC-L lines going to all 7 terminal blocks.

Verbose Background:

I’ve been struggling with terminal blocks more than I’d like to admit during this whole process.  Originally when I started using terminal blocks, I ran into an issue where I was trying to manually associate the pins of a terminal block in my schematic to the pins of a selected terminal block.  Basically, TB1 of AC-L was where my AC line ran into and when I was placing TB2 of AC-L, I was trying to reference the “in side” of TB2 AC-L to the “out side” of TB1 AC-L.  However, that was causing all sorts of problems since my terminal blocks are single level.  I stopped trying to associate them together and just dropped blocks going, “I’ll deal with the later because I need to get my schematic built”.

After some googling, I believe the association problem was me not understanding jargon.  I believe associations are meant to be for different levels of the same terminal blocks, not references to specifics pins of a terminal block.  I believe that if I wanted to “link several single layer terminal blocks together”, I would need to use a jumper.  In the terminal strip editor, I went to the tag strip for AC-L, selected all the terminal blocks (7) and added a jumper across all of them.  I went to update the preview and all 7 blocks are still showing.   It seems like the only point of adding in a jumper is so that the panel fabricator knows to add the jumpers there. 

Thanks,

Matt

[james.mcmillanNYR6A]

you seem to know the problem, if you want to represent one single level terminal block (I think) you should use a single schematic representation

if you want to try and do otherwise there is a method here that may help

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-electrical-forum/terminal-multiple-position-terminal-block-st...

the jumper can provide some indication for manufacture, it will also let AutoCAD know that the terminals are jumpered together for passing wireno. etc

[matthew_lomanno]

@james.mcmillanNYR6A 

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, I don't really understand what using a single schematic representation means.  Is that a type of terminal block symbol I can place (EG, "Square", "square with Wire Number", "Square with Terminal Number" or "Square with Wire Number")?

I am not sure if that suggestion is in reference to using single layer terminal blocks or using source/destination arrows with the specific number of terminal blocks I'd need.  I am really new to ACE, like this is my first project new.  

Matt

[james.mcmillanNYR6A]

you say you are using 7 terminal blocks in your schematic

but if you want to represent 4 terminal blocks, you should only have 4 terminal blocks in your schematic.

[matthew_lomanno]

@james.mcmillanNYR6A 

I guess this is where things aren't making sense.  I drew a quick example layout of what I'm trying to express below.  From a schematic design stand point, this make sense to me.  I have the terminal block going from the VDC+ rail to a relay coil for the rungs.  However, the "input" side of the terminal block only needs 1 wire since all 4 will be jumpered together. I am not sure how I'd show that this only requires 3 terminal blocks (1 in, 4 out, 5 total "positions" needed, 3 TB required total).  

Like I know that there only needs to be 1 "VDC+" line going to that terminal strip, but I don't know how to tell ACE that.

Matt

[james.mcmillanNYR6A]

"Like I know that there only needs to be 1 "VDC+" line going to that terminal strip, but I don't know how to tell ACE that."

A. By only having 1 'wire' going to it

1 option as this (remove green / add red)

in this way you will have 2 wires, supply / CR631 in terminal 5, 1 wire in terminal 6, 2 wires in terminal 7. Note the wires can attach to anywhere on the terminal or connecting wire and you can control the point of termination in wire sequence and terminal strip editor.

you can connect the terminals (shown purple) if desired however you must either

a) if using a jumper in the TSE, use a non wire layer

b) don't jumper in TSE and use a wire layer with the text 'JUMPER'

alternatively

a) look at the link provided in my first response for two options for implementing the single level terminal as a multilevel terminal, using those options you can associate your schematic terminals to each other

b) you can apply the wires identified green on a non wire layer, then use the TSE jumpering to connect the terminals in software

[matthew_lomanno]

Okay, so I think my main confusion comes from "ACE not being smart enough to determine the source only requires 1 wire and not a connection to all TB's in the strip since the TB''s are jumpered".  I understand what you mean with regards to the green and red wires being my connections and the purple being the links but as a non wire line.  From a schematic design side, it makes sense. 

I think my hesitation from this method is a "me thing" where I want to view the TB as a "connection point on the panel" (like the dots for lines that are connected) and having the red line connecting the wire feels "off" in the schematic. However panel wise, this would do exactly what I want it to do. 

As for the link provided, I want to make sure I understand its main concept.  Basically have a 2 level TB where "level 1" is the 5V connector (jumper between TBs) and "level 2" would be where the wires connect to.  

Matt

[james.mcmillanNYR6A]

I might've been getting ahead of the problem with this comment...

AutoCAD may run into issues resolving wire numbers and signal references if you connect terminals using both wires and jumpers, something you may be about to encounter anyway with your circuit.

ACE does not so this, 

any wires you put in are counted as real wires,  any wires you put in on a wire layer with JUMPER in the layer name will count as real wires but be omitted from terminal and wire annotation.

I'm not sure I'm the best person to comment on the link provided, only shared as it has solutions to what you were looking for originally. I think the explanation is in the post and might be a long winded recreation here.

[dougmcalexander]

Are you referring to what you see in the Terminal Strip Editor?  If you click Catalog Lookup and go to the part number of the terminal block part number you are using, then click to edit, scroll out to the right and you will see the "Wires Per Connection" field.  The default is 2.  That means 2 wires per screw or clamp, per terminal, or 4 total for a single pass-through terminal block.  If the Terminal Strip Editor sees what appears to be more than 4 wires connected to one schematic terminal symbol, it will add spare graphical terminals to the strip.  The way I document my strips is to replace node dots with actual terminal block symbols.  I call it "design reality" in my training classes.