Terminal Strip Help

[Anonymous]

Hello all,

I am having issues with terminal strips. I cannot get them to show and populate the way I am wanting.

1. For multiple terminals jumpered together, I would like a way to fill up all holes in a terminal before adding another terminal. The only way I am seeing to do this is to physically count the numbers of wires going to a terminal and every 4th one add a terminal (since this instance the terminal has 4 holes, a phoenix contact pt4 quatro) With the way it is currently populating the terminal strip there are a lot of gaps and wasted holes adding unnecessary terminals. 

2. I am not seeing a way to control the position of terminals in the strip (sequence) without manually moving individual ones up and down. I mean I can arrange them by column in the editor but that does nothing as far as the logical way I would like them. For example on a 3 wire sensor I would like all three wires together so that the wires can be terminated together. Since that is a cable it doesn't work having them spread out on the terminal strip. I also did a project wide terminal resequence and that did nothing.

I will attach my drawings and maybe someone can chime in if I am going about this the completely wrong way on setting up my terminals and give me some direction?

[Icemanau · Accepted solution]

To get terminals to group together automatically, you would need to use the Numbered terminals rather than using terminals that are identified by the wire number. Using your example, if you number the sensor wires so that they are similar, then it would group them together but having one at 24v and another at 0v while the third has a totally different number, then they are going to be all over the place.

As to the number of jumpered terminals and using all the connection points before adding a new terminal, ACAD starts the strip by counting EACH terminal symbol in the schematic for that strip. It then assigns the wires as shown in the schematic. Looking at the schematic you attached, you have FIVE 0V terminals with each terminal having 3 wires connecting them. The TSE will add those five terminals to the strip and show each one with 3 wires even though there are four connections available per terminal. Note that two of the wires will be looping to other terminals.

Here's one way to get around this. I will look at the 0V terminals only for this example.

    Insert ONE 0V terminal per page and then use the Edit Jumpers to link them between pages.

    Draw one wire from the terminal and place a source arrow (0VP1 for example with 0V for the Terminal and P1 for Page 1 and so on).

    Have all the 0V connections tie back to the source arrow with destination arrows as normal.

    Finally, edit the wire sequence and make all connections link back to the terminal using the Direct-to-Terminal method.

    [In the Edit Wire Sequence, select the terminal and then hold CTRL and select one of the destinations. Click the Add button near the bottom right of

    the top box. This will add it to the Direct-to-Terminal Secondary Sequences box on the bottom. Repeat for the other destinations as needed.]

    The TSE will now look at the terminal database/catalogue and adjust the number of terminals so that all connections are used before it automatically

    adds another one to the strip.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Brad, thanks for the reply. I deleted all 0V terminals except 1 per page. I then jumped them together. However, I am a little confused on why I need to do one source at the first page with the destinations on every other terminal on the other pages. I believe that is just to eliminate the pass through wires going from page to page that aren't truly real world connections? If that is the case then to get an elegant look is the best way to put the destination arrow at the very top with the terminal at the very end so the wire doesn't just end in space? I attached a pic of what I am talking about on the 0V terminals.

Also, how do I assign numbers to my terminals without starting over? I found a previous post of yours that showed how to do a project wide terminal renumber but I ran it and it did nothing.

[Anonymous]

Also check out these pics I attached. It did something weird. Although the terminals are the same part numbers and have the same amount of available terminations it is only using 2 of them on a couple terminals??

[Icemanau]

OK, looking at the pics does help a bit.

The terminals with only 2 wires would be on pages with either a low number of connections or more than one terminal was needed.

Try this...

Have 1 0V terminal on the first page. Remove them from the other pages.

Use source/Destination arrows to go from page to page.

Once all the components are linked, make them all connected via Direct-to-Terminal sequences with the 'Edit Wire Sequence' tool.

This should now count ALL the connections to the 1 terminal and add the required amount with no gaps.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

I don't see the purpose of connecting them direct-to-terminal..the reason I say this is that if all the wires are connected via a dot or a source arrow then they are all connected to that terminal already?

[Icemanau]

Connecting them Direct-to-Terminal means that the TSE/From-To Reports will see each component as having a wire directly to the terminal rather than from one component to another before reaching the terminal.

In other words, it would place a wire in each of the connection positions of the terminal with the other end of the wire going to the coil as shown in your screen capture.

The daisy chain (default wiring style) would have the terminal with one connection being used and the other coils looping of the previous coil.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Ok I understand now. I will try first thing in the morning.
I am going to make them all look like the attached image.

[Icemanau]

Yep, that will cause the TSE to add two extra terminals and place 4 wires on the first two terminals and 1 wire on the third, as long as the terminal properties are set to 1 wire per connection with two levels.

You would also need to set the negative/neutral up in the same way to get the same sort of result.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Ok so I followed your advice and had 1 terminal with wires going from page to page with source and destination arrows. I edited wire sequence and selected the location in Pic1 since everything is connected to that wire in all other drawings. It pulls up as expected in the sequence editor with every  termination showing up.

So I highlighted all terminals and added them to the bottom window and clicked ok-new(Pic2). It works as expected in pic3. Then it goes through each page there is a connection and updates. Once finished I went to TSE and selected TS1 (pic4).

It looks correct and when I click edit it throws the correct error saying I have more wires than holes and it says it will add some terminals. However the problem is it didn't add any terminals to TSE I only have 2 0V terminals??? 

It seems as if his whole issue really is something as simple as adding a parent child relationship option in the terminals. That way you can have a duplicate terminal without increasing quantity.

[Anonymous]

Here are pics 4 and 5.

[Icemanau]

OK, your shot of the Wire Sequencing dialog shows a problem.

Take a look at the screenshot I have included which shows how it should look for the individual links.

Each component should have it's own section separated from the next by a short line. This is missing in your screen shot and may indicate that each page has all the components there linking from one to another THEN going direct to the terminal.

It can't be seen in my screen shot but there is a source arrow and multiple destination arrows behind the dialog

The way to set it up is as follows...

1. Start the Edit Wire Connection Sequence tool and select the relevant wire network.

2. Click on 'Remove All' to clear the incorrect sequence.

3. Re-start the Edit Wire Connection Sequence tool and select the relevant wire network again.

4. Select the first component to link to the terminal. In your case, this would be the incoming supply to the terminal strip.

5. Hold CTRL and select the terminal.

6. Click 'Add v'. This will remove the component from the top box and place the sequence in the bottom box.

7. Repeat 4-6 until all components are set as direct to terminal and only the terminal shows in the top box.

8. Click 'OK-new' for finish and exit the dialog.

This will result in all a strip with all the components linking back to a terminal bus.

My screenshot was done with terminals all round but can be done with any other component as the secondary.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Ok Brad, I went through and linked each component individually (one at a time) using the edit wire sequence and that was the reason mine wouldn't populate as needed. When I went to insert the terminal strip it said hey we have more wires than holes so it added the appropriate amount of terminals which is correct. See pic1.

Of course, I am going to question why this has got to be such a difficult task to accomplish through autocad when I know other software platforms accomplish this with a lot less effort and time. I have read the ideas on how to correct this from several cad gurus and it seems this topic causes a lot of heartburn.. as it should. Is there any other way to accomplish this same task with fewer steps? I will still mark your response as a solution.

My last question on this topic is this. How can I gain more control over the order of my terminals without manually moving them in the TSE? I have noticed if I do not touch or mess with the order in the TSE, then the first time I go to insert the terminals it grabs them sequentially page to page top to bottom left to right. (that would get me close enough to no have to move too many manually). The problem is that I edited it and cannot get it back to that format.

The issue I think is we do not number our terminals different than the wire number and we NEVER have a wire number change going through a terminal. To me that sounds silly because the wire number should be the same as the terminal number.I am currently using the schematic terminal block with wire number. So what is the best way to approach this? Should I use the block that shows the terminal number but edit the block itself it to show the wire number so that I am only using the terminal numbers for ordering purposes behind the scene?

Thanks for the help!

[Icemanau · Accepted solution]

To my knowledge, there is not yet an easier way to do this. The TSE badly needs some attention and TLC but has been ignored for quite a while.

As for ordering the terminals in the TSE, that is again the only way I know of to change the order when not using the numbered terminals. Using numbered terminals and hiding the number and displaying the wire number instead may not work as the two attributes could clash.

As for using numbered over wire numbers, it all depends on the standards where you are.

I'm in Australia and the general convention here is to use numbered terminals but some people do use the terminals numbered by wires. I have yet to come across such a board myself. It also makes it easier when someone modifies the board by adding components before the terminal. All they need to do then is change the wire number without re-arranging the terminal strip to keep the sequence correct.

Same with wire numbers changing when going through terminals. We do a lot of identical HV CB control panels here and each panel has the same wire numbers to our company standard. When it comes to the clients field wiring, however, we have no control over the wire numbers so they will be different from what we have in the panels.

It also depends on the terminal as well... For example, we use a lot of test link terminals which allow you to connect monitoring and/or injection equipment to the circuits. Therefore the wire number has to change as the terminal can be used to modify the connection to the CT. Normal straight through terminals however, we generally leave the wire number as the same if it's internal to the panel.

Regards Brad

[Anonymous]

Have we ruled out that dhiggins88 hasn't left the terminals set to a maximum of 2 wire connections only ?

Dhiggins88, if you can post your whole project file, then we can actually look at the terminals' properties and advise. If you can't post your whole project, then I'd advise you to click Edit component on a terminal, and look at the Block Properties and the Terminal Associations (both buttons near top of window). Remember that ACADE has context-help, so look for help button or press F1 

As for your initial post: no, autoCAD won't do your wire-to-terminal associations automatically. You draw W0201, then you tell it where you want it connected. Auto-connections could be problematic.

You look like you're designing in 'machine world' where things are built in one way many times over, but in a wider electrical context, terminal numbers commonly aren't assigned to match the wire/cable, instead they describe function (e.g. X1 is AC infeed, X2 is AC switched, X20 might be DC positive, etc etc).

[Anonymous]

Mhd, I have posted a couple drawings in the first post. I'm not sure if thats what you need. However, I have attached some snips of the settings you requested. From what I gather, the terminals are full with the correct amount of connections so I did not look any more at this.

"As for your initial post: no, autoCAD won't do your wire-to-terminal associations automatically. You draw W0201, then you tell it where you want it connected. Auto-connections could be problematic."

I am not talking about automatic connections. My question was this- I have already placed a terminal on the wire and connected the wire where I want. If all of those wires are going to a common bus (terminal and part number the same that all share a common wire number) then the software should be able to say hey I know all 23 of these wires go to this bus and i have terminals that each have 4 holes therefore it inserts 6 terminals. The terminals connections have already been defined so there is nothing automatic about where they are going.