One-Line Componenets

[MatthewDBell]

Hi, I have a question about one-line componenets.

We are using one-line components as an overview drawing to show our installers what cables go to what locations. The way I am doing this is by inserting the one-line component and clicking on Schematic and copying all the attributes. When prompted, I click Tag1 as the copy option. This will bring in the Tag and descriptions like I expected. The issue that arises is when I run an update/retag it will change the schematic symbol because I believe it is seeing duplicate tag numbers. What I mean is that if my motor originally has a tag of MTR01100 on the schematic, it will change this to MTR01101. The only way I have found to prevent this is by setting the tags on the schematics to fixed before inserting one-line components but I feel like this shouldn't have to be done. 

Does anybody have an idea of what we might be doing wrong to cause this?

[jseefdrumr]

First, check out the HELP entry for "Cross-Discipline Peer-to-Peer Component Relationship Example", and verify that you are managing things correctly.

Check your project settings to see if you have enabled peer-to-peer cross referencing.

Also, review the use of the WDTAGALT attribute. You may need to put this attribute into your schematic symbols.

Hope this helps,

[MatthewDBell]

I looked at that earlier today, and if I am not mistaken that is for when referencing a electrical schematic number with a mechanical one in the case of solenoids and such, What I am trying to do is reference the same motor in two different places. 

[Icemanau]

Are you using single line components or are you using the standard components?

Single line component blocks have an '_1-' on the end of the file name and the WDTYPE attribute which also has 1- as the default entry.

The addition of these lets AutoCAD know to not update the block if it matches an already existing block. It also means that when you update one block, it also updates any others linked to it. For example, you change the Motor tag in the SLD to MO11 and it will ask to do an update on the schematic block it's linked to.

Same with any ratings and other attributes.

Regards Brad

[MatthewDBell]

Yes, we are using the one-line components. I exploded on of the motors that I have inserted and inside the WDTYPE attribute it has 1-. We are using mostly the standard NFPA one-line components.

My one-line drawing does not have line numbers on it, would that matter?

[MatthewDBell]

Just as a test, I added rung numbers to the drawing and when clicking on an one-line component and doing update retag, it retags the component to match the one-line drawing instead of the schematic drawing. 

[zalant]

I realize that this thread is from a few months back, but I wanted to add the wisdom of our own @PatMurnen_Adsk, to help clarify what's happening:

You don’t want to have multiple blocks of the same type (both 1-line, in this case) representing the same device. The idea with the Copy Tag is that you have a schematic parent and you copy it to the 1-line representation of the device. The 1-line symbol is seen as a “child” of the schematic parent, so on a retag they keep the tags in sync with each other. But, two 1-line devices (or two schematic parent devices, for that matter) with the same tag will get different tags from each other on a retag. AutoCAD Electrical does not support multiple symbols of the same type that represent the same device (i.e. same tag). I would consider the current behavior as-designed.

[Anonymous]

You can have One-Line components that are parents, and you can have them as children. Are you suggesting that this is bad practice? This would be next to impossible to get away with, since we might have different one-line components of the same device (such as an IED protective relay) on different locations of our One-Line drawing. We also have a separate One-Line drawing specifically for communications circuits between components, which will have components representing the same device that might be on the power/control One-Line.

[MatthewDBell]

So is the intention of AutoCAD Electrical to be used for either 1-line or schematics and not both in the same project? Because like it is mentioned above we use the schematics for the detail drawing of the system and the 1-line for the overview of the entire system. So in many cases we might have the same VFD and motor represented on both. 

[rhesusminus]

The intention is of course that you can use it like you're describing. Mix and match within a project, and connect them together to keep tags etc. in sync.

[MatthewDBell]

So then, why would do parent schematic tag and the parent 1-line show up as duplicate tags and change every time an update retag is done?

[rhesusminus]

If done properly, there shouldn't be any duplicate tags?

[Icemanau]

From what @PatMurnen_Adsk stated, you can have ONE (1) Single Line component linked to a schematic block. Any more than the one Single Line block causes the problem you are having.

Now I just did some testing and fnd what seems to be a workaround.

Find the SLD block that you want to use more than once.

Copy the block to a new file in the same directory.

RENAME the file so the the 4th character is a 2 instead of a 1 and remove the ' - Copy' including the spaces.

Open the file as and edit the TAG1 attribute to change it to TAG2.

Save the block and now insert into your main dwg.

Associate it with your parent SLD block.

You now have two SLD components that don't conflict with each other.

I'm having trouble with the automatic Retag command so I can't see if that works properly but doing a manual retag updates both SLD blocks with no problems.

Regards Brad

[MatthewDBell]

I just wanted to update this discussion. 

I had some down time to play with it some more and what I found was that my issue only happens when a project wide Update/Retag if only update one component at a time there is no issue. 

[MatthewDBell]

Some addition info:

When running a project wide Update/Retag with both the One Line and Schematic symbols on the same page there is no issue. SO it appears the only time it is an issue is when the One Line symbol is on a separate page from the schematic symbol. 

[AndyL_Work]

Hi all, I am having the same issue, I have checked the 1- on all the placements noted in the above and the help system as far as I can tell.

I have the Peer to Peer ticked in the Cross Reference tab in the Project Properties.

When I update manually i.e. Edit Component, the one-line component (on another drawing) is updated as expected. If I run the Update/ Retag The original Parent (3phase Drawing) is updated the one-line component is updated with the next sequential number and the link is broken.

I have tried to Retag/Update for Component retag the multi-wire drawing and then subsequently use the Retag/Update for Component Cross-Reference to see if that might work - but No.

I see no way in which the Retag/Update for the Component system can be used if you have linked a one-line to a 3phase component. I can also only find this thread that is related to this issue.

It can't be just 2 of us that have this issue. Any help would be appreciated!

[AndyL_Work]

I have not tested the one-line on the same DWG but I don't see the point of having it on the same drawing as it is to my mind for showing the general distribution of the site or the machine.

Have you come up with any more information that makes this seemingly simple situation work correctly?

Cheers,

Andy

[rhesusminus]

What is the format of your component tags?

But yes, this bug-riddled software has a "few issues" 😄

I'm not getting consistent results when using retag, either by doing it for just one component (right-click -> retag) or by doing it project-wide.

[MatthewDBell]

The only partial solution I have come up with is to mark the one line components as fixed. And then doing an update retag on the parent who will ask you if you want to update the fixed component as well.

[antarespronk]

Actually, it is worse than that....

If you are using "AEPROJUPDATE" (Project Wide Update/Retag), any WDTYPE with a supposed peer-to-peer relationship is ignored unless the drawings are open.

Yes, you read that correctly, it depends if the drawing is currently open or not.

You will need to make both components fixed to ensure they are not retagged incorrectly when using AEPROJUPDATE.

If you have a WDTAGALT assigned, then they will remain linked as the same component but with different TAG names.

It is possible to make only the WDTAGALT Attribute visible, thereby make it look the same on the drawing, however your reports are then less than accurate.

Additionally, blocks like 1- and other "peer-to-peer" blocks typically have a TAG1F attribute as opposed to the standard of TAG1.