Advance steel 2018

[Anonymous]

So what's new ? 

[Anonymous]

So what's new ? 

[FCort]

All AS users are expecting improvements that reduce the time of modeling, as well create clear and accurate erection and fabrication drawings without wasting time editing or cleaning up.
In my experience, few consulting engineers shares the model, and if they do, the models lack of precision, and normally is faster start from scratch in AS.
If Autodesk wants to keep and gain new AS users, they should take a look of what Tekla and SDS2 do to develop their programs.

[FCort]

All AS users are expecting improvements that reduce the time of modeling, as well create clear and accurate erection and fabrication drawings without wasting time editing or cleaning up.
In my experience, few consulting engineers shares the model, and if they do, the models lack of precision, and normally is faster start from scratch in AS.
If Autodesk wants to keep and gain new AS users, they should take a look of what Tekla and SDS2 do to develop their programs.

[Dias_Antonio]

I agree...

[Dias_Antonio]

I agree...

[AntDrt]

Hi everyone

I see my comment have not been understand as i wish

For me collaboration is evil... cause Engineers doesn't work on  AS and try to do something by all the way and not necessary the best way for us detaillers.

in my dream AS work great only in IFC and smlx and that's good for Revit or Bimsight.

but i admit for the price of this software, improvement for detaillers in 2018 is very poor.

But as 2017 there will be a 2018.1 who maybe we will have more improvements.

Don't loose at mind that AS is dependent of autocad tech, and in V2018 the dwg file format have change and tech have changed, AS team are not alone.

But maybe have to be reinforced to up much faster the sofware.

tekla is still better than AS (modeling and drawings) and keep to up (last time i saw tekla is was better in concrete, but it's another subject)

AS have to get a huge Asskick to up at tekla's level if they want to obtain more subscribers and avoid to have more and more bad comments on his workflow.

Resume:

little evolution each 6months (expected as 2017)

but not so difference beetwen years releases.

[AntDrt]

Hi everyone

I see my comment have not been understand as i wish

For me collaboration is evil... cause Engineers doesn't work on  AS and try to do something by all the way and not necessary the best way for us detaillers.

in my dream AS work great only in IFC and smlx and that's good for Revit or Bimsight.

but i admit for the price of this software, improvement for detaillers in 2018 is very poor.

But as 2017 there will be a 2018.1 who maybe we will have more improvements.

Don't loose at mind that AS is dependent of autocad tech, and in V2018 the dwg file format have change and tech have changed, AS team are not alone.

But maybe have to be reinforced to up much faster the sofware.

tekla is still better than AS (modeling and drawings) and keep to up (last time i saw tekla is was better in concrete, but it's another subject)

AS have to get a huge Asskick to up at tekla's level if they want to obtain more subscribers and avoid to have more and more bad comments on his workflow.

Resume:

little evolution each 6months (expected as 2017)

but not so difference beetwen years releases.

[Anonymous]

I've found on a polish distributors webpage this pic. And this isnt a powerpack element. Maybe not all the new things was presented in the help file ?! ?! 

[Anonymous]

I've found on a polish distributors webpage this pic. And this isnt a powerpack element. Maybe not all the new things was presented in the help file ?! ?! 

[planung]

Sieht doch auch nicht schlecht aus. Hab die Seite auch gefunden.

[planung]

Sieht doch auch nicht schlecht aus. Hab die Seite auch gefunden.

[acbsdesign]

Hello Everyone,

Installed 2018 version, and used all default database, no customization, nothing used from 2017.1:

Labels move again, more stable, but still moving.

Dimensions move again.

On the other side we have 100+ connections for Revit...

-I do not know a single designer who will use Revit, and who will model the structure the way, a detailer would model it.

No way!

All this with Revit having connections is a BS, a stupid idea of a someone not from this world.

Are the Revit users paying for Advance Steel? 

I have the list of 'improvements', for 2018-it is actually in bigger percent-BUG Fixes.

Bad, Bad, Bad...

[acbsdesign]

Hello Everyone,

Installed 2018 version, and used all default database, no customization, nothing used from 2017.1:

Labels move again, more stable, but still moving.

Dimensions move again.

On the other side we have 100+ connections for Revit...

-I do not know a single designer who will use Revit, and who will model the structure the way, a detailer would model it.

No way!

All this with Revit having connections is a BS, a stupid idea of a someone not from this world.

Are the Revit users paying for Advance Steel? 

I have the list of 'improvements', for 2018-it is actually in bigger percent-BUG Fixes.

Bad, Bad, Bad...

[FCort]

Looks like Autodesk is focus in Revit and not in AS, and at the same time is forcing current users to start looking for a better steel detailing software. Does anyone has experience with ProSteel, SteelCad, Soft Steel? I think the price is similar to AS. Or Tekla, SDS/2?

[FCort]

Looks like Autodesk is focus in Revit and not in AS, and at the same time is forcing current users to start looking for a better steel detailing software. Does anyone has experience with ProSteel, SteelCad, Soft Steel? I think the price is similar to AS. Or Tekla, SDS/2?

[steeldesgn]

Maybe Autodesk should hire people with real world backgrounds in steel detailing such as structural and misc steel. Detailers that are from the countries that advance is sold. They would be able to take Autodesk by the hand and show them what we as detailers would like to have not what Autodesk thinks we need. I could care less about revit and collaboration of models with the job site and the architect, it's bad enough that we have to decifer contract drawings as to what the architects and engineers want. At the end of the day I just want the job detailed and out the door.

[steeldesgn]

Maybe Autodesk should hire people with real world backgrounds in steel detailing such as structural and misc steel. Detailers that are from the countries that advance is sold. They would be able to take Autodesk by the hand and show them what we as detailers would like to have not what Autodesk thinks we need. I could care less about revit and collaboration of models with the job site and the architect, it's bad enough that we have to decifer contract drawings as to what the architects and engineers want. At the end of the day I just want the job detailed and out the door.

[Anonymous]

I would like to know how revit is going to detail the steelwork? Yeah give them the connections then what have a pretty model ya.

Had this thing 5 years now and seen very little improvement in the real world real time 2d drawing output enviroment.

How many times do we have to ask.

The 2d is easily as important as 3d. I doubt if they will ever understand a steel detailer.

The program is not far of target but the just wont fix what need fixing and that is

1. A simplified Drawing Styles editing system.
2. A simplified Database editing system.
3. Redo the grahpics engine. Have a look at the old Strucad for example. 10x the speed.

  Each year at contract time I have to think long and hard about singing up. Very sad.

Hope to be surprised by 2018 but its not sounding good.

My old superseded out of date, wont auto update, Strucad eats this for breakfast every day of the week.

[Anonymous]

I would like to know how revit is going to detail the steelwork? Yeah give them the connections then what have a pretty model ya.

Had this thing 5 years now and seen very little improvement in the real world real time 2d drawing output enviroment.

How many times do we have to ask.

The 2d is easily as important as 3d. I doubt if they will ever understand a steel detailer.

The program is not far of target but the just wont fix what need fixing and that is

1. A simplified Drawing Styles editing system.
2. A simplified Database editing system.
3. Redo the grahpics engine. Have a look at the old Strucad for example. 10x the speed.

  Each year at contract time I have to think long and hard about singing up. Very sad.

Hope to be surprised by 2018 but its not sounding good.

My old superseded out of date, wont auto update, Strucad eats this for breakfast every day of the week.

[Anonymous]

OK, here is where I stand on this release (BTW, I do have a copy yet). All users of Advance Steel have their own personal preferences as to how they want it to work for them and what is useful or redundant to their needs. Several items that I have been complaining about for a number of years have been addressed and for this I am grateful and this release makes AS a much better tool for me.

These are:

1. Call outs on drawings - very useful to all users and a great enhancement
2. Ball post handrails - these are now implemented as part of the program and no longer a plugin. This may be a minor thing to people who don't use these products but they are a major addition to the Australian , New Zealand, English and Asian markets. This will be a huge time saver for me as I currently use a custom library and insert as special parts, works but a pain.
3. Purlin to purlin connections in the form of purlin accessories, a major time saver when doing a roof with a lot of openings. Again this is specifically for the Australian and New Zealand market so may not be useful for the majority of users. Add this to 2017's bridging tool and doing purlins has become a much easier process.
4. Wall mounted handrails is another great addition to the program and brings it into line with the other detailing software on the market.

The other enhancements will help but are not the time savers like the previous items. Migration tools are OK but seldom work as promised and you use these once only, good if you are installing on 50 seats but there is only me so an extra 15 minutes once a year is neither here nor there for me.

Mike (steeldesign), in Australia we are very fortunate that our local development team has Stephan Gumpert (Gumbie) who is responsible for items 2 and 3 on my enhancement list, he is from a fabricators background and a skilled detailer, programmer and all round good guy. Thankyou for your contributions. I would think that in other locations the same may apply.

I agree with you on the other matters and my previous posts highlight this, a lot of time and effort has been spent on the Revit collaboration but I do not see this as being driven by detailers or Architects or Engineers. As I said before the Architect doesn't really care what the detailer does and the whole flaw in this collaboration thing is this.

The Architect designs a structure and uses steel members in the model, the Engineer looks at the model and changes the steel elements to what will make the building structurally sound. This has impacts on the model and this goes back and forth until the design is agreed by everyone. The Engineer details some connections (typical only just to get his drawings out for the fabricator) and issues drawings. The Builder is now in a position to get quotes and issue contracts. The fabricator is given the model to work from, his detailer commences adding all connections and produces drawings for submission uploads his model to the Engineer to update his model and the Architect to upload to his model. Ideal scenario.

However...

The Engineer won't upload the new model because his work on the design is done he doesn't really care if the steel is in the right place or not just that the connections are correct, the Architect doesn't care about connections as that is the Engineers job and anyway he is too busy moving walls and changing the design because the client had an epiphany. The builder in the meantime has poured concrete and anchors close to the mark but will need site checking and adjustment before final fabrication drawings can go to the workshop. The model going back to the Architect won't fit perfectly and it is upsetting his model because of clashes with walls. 

The ideal world relies on everyone working to mm accuracy but that is not the case. Over the years on many projects the detailer has less and less direct contact with the Architect or the Engineer when a simple phone call can sort out most issues, but now through all the collaboration the detailer goes to the builder who sends to the engineer who asks the architect who comments and sends back to the engineer and then to the builder and then the detailer who then says there is still a problem. Weeks are spent on simple design issues or getting clarification when 2 minutes on the phone is all that is needed. I find the common response that comes back is put it on the drawing and we will look at it at review stage. No amount of Revit toing and froing will change this and I don't see our models being looked at anyway. So the whole process falls apart.

Overall, this is a good update for me, but there are still a lot more things to do.

Gary

[Anonymous]

OK, here is where I stand on this release (BTW, I do have a copy yet). All users of Advance Steel have their own personal preferences as to how they want it to work for them and what is useful or redundant to their needs. Several items that I have been complaining about for a number of years have been addressed and for this I am grateful and this release makes AS a much better tool for me.

These are:

1. Call outs on drawings - very useful to all users and a great enhancement
2. Ball post handrails - these are now implemented as part of the program and no longer a plugin. This may be a minor thing to people who don't use these products but they are a major addition to the Australian , New Zealand, English and Asian markets. This will be a huge time saver for me as I currently use a custom library and insert as special parts, works but a pain.
3. Purlin to purlin connections in the form of purlin accessories, a major time saver when doing a roof with a lot of openings. Again this is specifically for the Australian and New Zealand market so may not be useful for the majority of users. Add this to 2017's bridging tool and doing purlins has become a much easier process.
4. Wall mounted handrails is another great addition to the program and brings it into line with the other detailing software on the market.

The other enhancements will help but are not the time savers like the previous items. Migration tools are OK but seldom work as promised and you use these once only, good if you are installing on 50 seats but there is only me so an extra 15 minutes once a year is neither here nor there for me.

Mike (steeldesign), in Australia we are very fortunate that our local development team has Stephan Gumpert (Gumbie) who is responsible for items 2 and 3 on my enhancement list, he is from a fabricators background and a skilled detailer, programmer and all round good guy. Thankyou for your contributions. I would think that in other locations the same may apply.

I agree with you on the other matters and my previous posts highlight this, a lot of time and effort has been spent on the Revit collaboration but I do not see this as being driven by detailers or Architects or Engineers. As I said before the Architect doesn't really care what the detailer does and the whole flaw in this collaboration thing is this.

The Architect designs a structure and uses steel members in the model, the Engineer looks at the model and changes the steel elements to what will make the building structurally sound. This has impacts on the model and this goes back and forth until the design is agreed by everyone. The Engineer details some connections (typical only just to get his drawings out for the fabricator) and issues drawings. The Builder is now in a position to get quotes and issue contracts. The fabricator is given the model to work from, his detailer commences adding all connections and produces drawings for submission uploads his model to the Engineer to update his model and the Architect to upload to his model. Ideal scenario.

However...

The Engineer won't upload the new model because his work on the design is done he doesn't really care if the steel is in the right place or not just that the connections are correct, the Architect doesn't care about connections as that is the Engineers job and anyway he is too busy moving walls and changing the design because the client had an epiphany. The builder in the meantime has poured concrete and anchors close to the mark but will need site checking and adjustment before final fabrication drawings can go to the workshop. The model going back to the Architect won't fit perfectly and it is upsetting his model because of clashes with walls. 

The ideal world relies on everyone working to mm accuracy but that is not the case. Over the years on many projects the detailer has less and less direct contact with the Architect or the Engineer when a simple phone call can sort out most issues, but now through all the collaboration the detailer goes to the builder who sends to the engineer who asks the architect who comments and sends back to the engineer and then to the builder and then the detailer who then says there is still a problem. Weeks are spent on simple design issues or getting clarification when 2 minutes on the phone is all that is needed. I find the common response that comes back is put it on the drawing and we will look at it at review stage. No amount of Revit toing and froing will change this and I don't see our models being looked at anyway. So the whole process falls apart.

Overall, this is a good update for me, but there are still a lot more things to do.

Gary

[iwafb]

Nice post Gary. I believe the process you are describing is called "fast tracking"...

As for the "put it on the drawings and we'll review" comment, can't really post my std reply. But it goes something like:

"Thanks for the offer, but as I understand it, review does not extend to re-design. Hence I would really appreciate you taking the time to do your job in the first instance and provide a solution since I've only made provisions to draw this project once." Or something like that...

On a different note, massive Kudos to @stephan.gumpert for going beyond the call and providing much needed tools to help us Aussies. Cheers Gumpie! Without these, the new update would really have not much to offer in terms of real world gains to actual detailers.

I tend to agree that the biggest contribution that Autodesk can make to actual users is improving document management and 2D documentation/editing.

Dart

[iwafb]

Nice post Gary. I believe the process you are describing is called "fast tracking"...

As for the "put it on the drawings and we'll review" comment, can't really post my std reply. But it goes something like:

"Thanks for the offer, but as I understand it, review does not extend to re-design. Hence I would really appreciate you taking the time to do your job in the first instance and provide a solution since I've only made provisions to draw this project once." Or something like that...

On a different note, massive Kudos to @stephan.gumpert for going beyond the call and providing much needed tools to help us Aussies. Cheers Gumpie! Without these, the new update would really have not much to offer in terms of real world gains to actual detailers.

I tend to agree that the biggest contribution that Autodesk can make to actual users is improving document management and 2D documentation/editing.

Dart

[acbsdesign]

Steeldsgn,

Very Well Said.

This is what I think and support, 100%.

[acbsdesign]

Steeldsgn,

Very Well Said.

This is what I think and support, 100%.

[Anonymous]

So tested and approved ?

Bugged or not ? Should we wait HF1/SP1 before installing or AS2018 is stable ?

Regards,

[Anonymous]

So tested and approved ?

Bugged or not ? Should we wait HF1/SP1 before installing or AS2018 is stable ?

Regards,

[AntDrt]

Hi,

AS2018 is enough stable for US, didn't have any crash since i installed it.

Even on large GA drawings 

[AntDrt]

Hi,

AS2018 is enough stable for US, didn't have any crash since i installed it.

Even on large GA drawings 

[Anonymous]

Lucky guys. I still not have the download possibility in my account.

[Anonymous]

Lucky guys. I still not have the download possibility in my account.

[dean]

That is how a lot of my projects go also, "put it on the drawings and we'll review", so I fail to see how the interface between Revit and AS is going to make any difference in my world.  Architects and Engineers tend to be very general with their "standard" details and miss (or just expect me to submit a solution to them so they can tell me that is not what they intended).  Anyway, I have been detailing for 25 years and using AS since 2011 and spent a ton of money keeping up with the subscription hoping that Autodesk would make a pretty good detailing program into a really good detailing program for detailers.  Unfortunately that has not been the case.  They have spent way to much time on the interface between programs and not nearly enough on the drawings produced by AS. I agree 100%  that "the biggest contribution that Autodesk can make to actual users is improving document management and 2D documentation/editing".  This is incredibly frustrating!!  I have been using AS2018 for a couple weeks now and it is basically the same crap that we have been dealing with for years.  Ya, there are a few new features, but the main problems with the 2D documentation persist as they always have (which is where the majority of my time ends up being spent).  It would be one thing to go over the drawings one time re-dimensioning the way I want, but every time I do an update dims get added/subtracted (seemingly randomly) and go to nodes that I don't care about so I get to do it again and again and again.  I'm no programmer, but this can't be that difficult to fix considering what the program actually does.  I had high hopes AS2018 would be the one that fixed the most time consuming issue (in my opinion), but nope.  Interfacing between programs is a nice dream, but in my experience I usually spend way more time fixing a model from someone else than I would've if I'd made it myself.  It doesn't matter how good the interface is if it isn't modeled "properly" in the first place.  C'mon Autodesk, this is a STEEL DETAILING program.  Time is money and I have to spend way too much time fixing drawings over and over.  FIX IT!!

[dean]

That is how a lot of my projects go also, "put it on the drawings and we'll review", so I fail to see how the interface between Revit and AS is going to make any difference in my world.  Architects and Engineers tend to be very general with their "standard" details and miss (or just expect me to submit a solution to them so they can tell me that is not what they intended).  Anyway, I have been detailing for 25 years and using AS since 2011 and spent a ton of money keeping up with the subscription hoping that Autodesk would make a pretty good detailing program into a really good detailing program for detailers.  Unfortunately that has not been the case.  They have spent way to much time on the interface between programs and not nearly enough on the drawings produced by AS. I agree 100%  that "the biggest contribution that Autodesk can make to actual users is improving document management and 2D documentation/editing".  This is incredibly frustrating!!  I have been using AS2018 for a couple weeks now and it is basically the same crap that we have been dealing with for years.  Ya, there are a few new features, but the main problems with the 2D documentation persist as they always have (which is where the majority of my time ends up being spent).  It would be one thing to go over the drawings one time re-dimensioning the way I want, but every time I do an update dims get added/subtracted (seemingly randomly) and go to nodes that I don't care about so I get to do it again and again and again.  I'm no programmer, but this can't be that difficult to fix considering what the program actually does.  I had high hopes AS2018 would be the one that fixed the most time consuming issue (in my opinion), but nope.  Interfacing between programs is a nice dream, but in my experience I usually spend way more time fixing a model from someone else than I would've if I'd made it myself.  It doesn't matter how good the interface is if it isn't modeled "properly" in the first place.  C'mon Autodesk, this is a STEEL DETAILING program.  Time is money and I have to spend way too much time fixing drawings over and over.  FIX IT!!

[AntDrt]

Hi dean
Well said, we will take more time to correct model from another guy who don't care of drawing creation.

But, in this release, docmanager is more stable (even on large and complicated GA drawings).
Our cotation is more stable ( if you choose to let manual dim after update) but still a little buggy.

Release 18.0 is for compliancy with other softwares from autodesk.
But we have to wait for hotfix and 18.1
If 18.1 doesn't have some news for us (detaillers), we will be allowed to fire on autodesk.

And i really really hope some news for 18.1

[AntDrt]

Hi dean
Well said, we will take more time to correct model from another guy who don't care of drawing creation.

But, in this release, docmanager is more stable (even on large and complicated GA drawings).
Our cotation is more stable ( if you choose to let manual dim after update) but still a little buggy.

Release 18.0 is for compliancy with other softwares from autodesk.
But we have to wait for hotfix and 18.1
If 18.1 doesn't have some news for us (detaillers), we will be allowed to fire on autodesk.

And i really really hope some news for 18.1

[Dias_Antonio]

Very well said man...

[Dias_Antonio]

Very well said man...

[acbsdesign]

I told dev and  tech support 100 times already there is a problem with labels and dimensions,

answer was first-this is only my issue.

So frustrating and time consuming.

Lousy, lousy support here in US, (and in Montreal in the past)

Lousy answers and attitude from just about everywhere. And I am talking about bugs reports, not real tech support.

Does anyone have experience with Strucad-stability, connections? Do we need to buy Autocad too or they have their own platform.

Advance is becoming a huge disappointment, Udo does not care, his boss does not care, no one cares.

It's time to look around, I think.

[acbsdesign]

I told dev and  tech support 100 times already there is a problem with labels and dimensions,

answer was first-this is only my issue.

So frustrating and time consuming.

Lousy, lousy support here in US, (and in Montreal in the past)

Lousy answers and attitude from just about everywhere. And I am talking about bugs reports, not real tech support.

Does anyone have experience with Strucad-stability, connections? Do we need to buy Autocad too or they have their own platform.

Advance is becoming a huge disappointment, Udo does not care, his boss does not care, no one cares.

It's time to look around, I think.

[Anonymous]

I think all structural steel packages have their problems and there will always be things that we as users want and there are the things that the developers think we need. The beauty of this forum is that us users get to have our say on what we want in the the software and the developers get to take on board our concerns and look at ways to address them.

That is in an ideal world. The reality is slightly different however and I am assuming that this is because there may not be enough developers to deal with the main concerns that we have. At the end of the day our customers are not interested in our model or how we make connections, all they want are the drawings we produce. These must have the information they want and be accurate and easily read. As detailers our modelling is the component that goes into making our drawings work, we want tools that make it easier for us to create the drawings the customer wants. We also want things to stay where they are on our drawings because if things move (dimensions and labels) during revision we make not always pick these up but our customer will.

What we as a community need to do is to keep telling the management what we want fixed and keep telling them. It is all well and good to put up new ideas but we need to support these ideas. When only 2 or 3 people say an idea is good the developers don't take much notice. Why should they care, if we don't show we care.

The user base for AS is still relatively small compared to the big guys but as more people know about AS there will be a bigger shift in the user base. The people who care know about Revit and Tekla and seem to have no idea that Autodesk has their own detailing package.

The best thing about this forum is it is open and anyone can look at what is being said unlike a lot of forums for the other packages where only product users can have their say.

[Anonymous]

I think all structural steel packages have their problems and there will always be things that we as users want and there are the things that the developers think we need. The beauty of this forum is that us users get to have our say on what we want in the the software and the developers get to take on board our concerns and look at ways to address them.

That is in an ideal world. The reality is slightly different however and I am assuming that this is because there may not be enough developers to deal with the main concerns that we have. At the end of the day our customers are not interested in our model or how we make connections, all they want are the drawings we produce. These must have the information they want and be accurate and easily read. As detailers our modelling is the component that goes into making our drawings work, we want tools that make it easier for us to create the drawings the customer wants. We also want things to stay where they are on our drawings because if things move (dimensions and labels) during revision we make not always pick these up but our customer will.

What we as a community need to do is to keep telling the management what we want fixed and keep telling them. It is all well and good to put up new ideas but we need to support these ideas. When only 2 or 3 people say an idea is good the developers don't take much notice. Why should they care, if we don't show we care.

The user base for AS is still relatively small compared to the big guys but as more people know about AS there will be a bigger shift in the user base. The people who care know about Revit and Tekla and seem to have no idea that Autodesk has their own detailing package.

The best thing about this forum is it is open and anyone can look at what is being said unlike a lot of forums for the other packages where only product users can have their say.