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What exactly constitutes "PBR"?

9 REPLIES 9
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Message 1 of 10
Anonymous
1077 Views, 9 Replies

What exactly constitutes "PBR"?

The definition seems to be elusive. Consider this model:

 

Japanese Bedroom.jpg

 

It is found here:

 

Free Model of Nice Bedroom at CGTrader 

 

According to the site's description, these are the parameters of that item:

 

With Textures but it is not PBR.png

 

It says there that the model is not PBR-based. I was under the impression that every model that has texture maps such as Albedo, Normal, Displacement, Bump, Roughness, etc. is -by definition- PBR.

 

Somebody said that to be PBR, the Physical Material must be used? The ones used above are Standard Material.

 

In another forum, an expert claims that PBR is really a process.

 

You folks cannot blame me for being confused.

 

TIA,

 

-Ramon

 

 

 

9 REPLIES 9
Message 2 of 10
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I just found a new data point for this problem. The site Sketchfab has a new section, dedicated to PBR:

 

PBR Section at Sketchfab 

 

Look at all those PBR models! They look amazing, don't they?

 

Is this PBR or Not.png

 

So, let's click on the object in row 3, column 2.

 

Now it is not PBR.png

 

It seems that PBR is some sort of quantum state?   : -)

 

-Ramon

 

 

Message 3 of 10
madsd
in reply to: Anonymous

That's the internet, you can write anything you want.

It is up to you as a user to adapt to the environment, you cannot change it, so it works in your favor in all possible directions.

In other words, always assume everything is broken. Then work out from that and get it working.
That's how you integrate into the interface.

 

 

Message 4 of 10
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi there,

 

James from Sketchfab here. Thanks for reporting this. I just reprocessed the Tbot model so that it correctly displays its PBR state in Model Information.

 

For your information, at Sketchfab, we determine if a model is PBR or not by checking if there is a texture in a microfacet channel (Roughness or Glossiness), that it is set to "PBR Mode" (as opposed to "Classic Mode" - which we will likely remove completely in the not-so-distant future), and that it is in "Lit" rendering mode (as opposed to "Shadeless" or MatCap).

 

Happy to take a look at any other Sketchfab models you might find where you think there's an issue.

 

And for the record, that section is not new, it's existed since we launched PBR in 2015. Admittedly it's a bit hidden on the site.

Message 5 of 10
darawork
in reply to: Anonymous

My understanding of PBR is that no material parameter breaks the real world reflective or emissive laws of physics for that material type. It is a strict code of ethics where it comes to the interaction of light under non biased rendering engines and conditions. 

 

But it's all theoretical, digital based emulations of real world scenarios which are, at the end of the day, ultimately falsely represented on a monitor.

 

If true PBR existed in the digital realm, creating a sun light system fifty meters away from your delicately sculpted building or character model would result in the most likely the end of your monitor, computer, office and the world as we know it.

 

In Corona render, I always select PBR mode in each CoronaMTL I create and cover my eyes while pressing the radio button. But the world doesn't melt, so that's nice. 

Darawork
AutoDesk User
Windows 10/11, 3DS Max 2022/24, Revit 2022, AutoCad 2024, Dell Precision 5810/20, ASUS DIY, nVidia Quadro P5000/RTX 5000/GTX760

Message 6 of 10
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous


@Anonymous wrote:

 

For your information, at Sketchfab, we determine if a model is PBR or not by checking if there is a texture in a microfacet channel (Roughness or Glossiness), that it is set to "PBR Mode" (as opposed to "Classic Mode" - which we will likely remove completely in the not-so-distant future), and that it is in "Lit" rendering mode (as opposed to "Shadeless" or MatCap).

 


James:

 

Could you please provide detailed instructions on how to verify the PBRness? My app of choice is 3ds Max but I also use Maya.

 

Thanks!

 

-Ramon

 

Message 7 of 10
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi Ramon,

 

I can't really speak to how 3ds Max or Maya handle PBR, but on Sketchfab we just check if there is a texture in the Roughness or Glossiness channel of the material.

 

James

Message 8 of 10
madsd
in reply to: Anonymous

You need to reauthor standard material and upgrade it to Physical material.

 

Physical material does all sorts of cool things in the viewport HQ mode.

All renders should work great with it.

 

The Scene Converter that comes with MAX, is your friend if sketchfab is not up to the task to update their archive to the best user experience.

 

Message 9 of 10
darawork
in reply to: madsd

To be fair to Sketchfab, their online model editing interface is very well
presented, and deeply functional. So much so than it allows retexturing of
user uploaded models to a lot greater detail than I could ever get from
baking textures inside Max. I'm not an expert uvw unwrapper, but the
quality I was getting inside Max, prior to export was very low. Baking
simple characters or items of furniture is fine, but try architectural
cityscapes or something of a similar size and it's honestly nightmarish.


Darawork
AutoDesk User
Windows 10/11, 3DS Max 2022/24, Revit 2022, AutoCad 2024, Dell Precision 5810/20, ASUS DIY, nVidia Quadro P5000/RTX 5000/GTX760

Message 10 of 10
navjotsandhu_sqb
in reply to: Anonymous

I was confused as well, and then received the missing piece of information from the threejs website.

Right, so its like if they are just parameters, why aren't they just like a material.  PBR is a "physically based material" is a specification around specific parameters that can be used to achieve a certain kind of realistic look that is compatible with a specific kind of technology used in modern renderers.

 

Really realism could be defined by thousands of parameters, though they are saying use these parameters, and these parameters only to create a material, and then our rendering technology will be able to reproduce that exact look.  A new programming paradigm that has emerged also has to do with the way rendering technology works on different platforms like windows, linux, mobile devices, etc... and the new tech like directx12, vulkan, and metal on apple are similar in how they do rendering on GPU's.  So PBR's are now also useful that when viewed on different devices, they will be more similar to original design across all devices, than in the past.

 

The threejs website gave me the clue that PBR's, once defined, don't require multiple configurations for different lighting conditions like in the past.  If you change from a bright light source, to a dimly light room, the material calculations will update automatically because the way ray tracing calculations works.  Also threejs says physically correct model as well, which also has to do with light and distance calculations.  The light value of a PBR will behave just like a real life version of it will, as far as the distance it emits light or affects other objects in the scene, which is pretty interesting!

 

With rasterization, the color of the material was more based on the value of the material, with ray tracing is more about the surrounding environment determining what that material actually looks like.  PBR is designed give more realistic looks to materials and textures based on ray tracing calculations.  Specifications in general, for non-programmers, like jpg, png, PBR, etc... are used so that multiple companies that make different tools develop a standard way of storing and using data in efficent, replicable manner.  Also that way, something can be improved upon independently, and then updates can be provided to the rest of the industry on that standard when needed.

 

So based on the community and industry's excessive amount of work done, new technologies have been developed and PBR is a new way of interacting with those technologies with respect to material and textures on 3D models.

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