Video Post camera rendering question

[NHHiker]

I have a scene in which a single frame renders in 15 seconds from Camera 1. If I add only Camera 1 to Video Post and render that same frame, it takes 45 seconds. (There are a number of hidden objects in the scene, but the Render Hidden Geometry option is turned off and these objects do indeed remain hidden.) The longest time suck appears to be on the Preparing Lights segment where Max sits until about 39 seconds into the render.

Suggestions on what is going on? I want to add a simple Lens Effect Glow, but this tripling of render time is unacceptable.

Thanks,

NHAnimator

[hagen.deloss]

Hello @NHHiker

Thanks for bringing your question to the 3DS Max forums! I am curious if you have tested multiple frame renders with the video post tool; a single frame render with the tool may not be the best comparison, as the video post tool is meant to calculate more moving parts, so it compiles the first frame differently then subsequent frames. 

What renderer are you using, and what version of 3DS Max?

[hagen.deloss]

Hi @NHHiker

I wanted to check back and see if my post helped you with your problem. It would be super helpful if you could add a post with how you decide to proceed, and your results. That way other Community members can benefit from your process

Please select the Accept as Solution button if a post solves your issue or answers your question.

[NHHiker]

Hello Hagen and thanks for following up. My project just cleared and I ran a few tests.

Rendering from the normal camera view game me times of 22, 18 and 18 seconds for a mid-animation sample range. The same camera view when loaded in Video Post game me times of 37, 36 and 36 seconds.

I created a Screencast showing a similar test and the results. It's "pending" right now, so I'm not sure if it will attach properly. If not, I'll attach it again when it's good to go. In this example, the render difference is even more extreme.

John

[hagen.deloss]

Hi @NHHiker

Thanks for the additional information, and the screencast!  I created my own test scene with 4 hidden spotlights and some excess geometry, all my renders had equal speeds in Video Post vs a normal render setup. I looked around in our internally systems and didn't see anything logged under this issue, so whatever is going on, it's not well documented, can you provide a zipped file of the scene you are having this issue with?  If not, can you answer these questions for me so I can try to recreate the environment.

• How many lights do you have hidden in the scene?
• What other attributes do they have? 
• Is this a scene specific issue, or does the video post tool operate in other scenes like this for you? 

Talk to you soon,

[irishman_team_kilber · Accepted solution]

@NHHikerwhy not use the atmospheric effects and then add a glow that way? hit 8 on your kb and then effects add chose lense effects and then choose the glow double click to move the glow to the RT handside you can control the option from the boxes. for example lense effect, global the glow element etc, would not this be a better way instead of going through the video post.

maybe load both into the ram player and see which one you like best, if the ram player is still around in the new version.

if the atmospheric effects unsatisfactory and you have try this way then sorry for pointing it out

[NHHiker]

@irishman_team_kilber

Thanks much for the suggestion. This is what I ultimately what I chose to do.

@hagen.deloss

It's possible that this is related to the .RPC "unused materials" issue as it is the same project file. If I'm not mistaken, I believe that in the testing you suggested, I'm getting normal results. If I can figure out how to clean up that file of the hidden maps, I'll retry the VP camera and see if that resolves the issue.

[irishman_team_kilber]

hopfully you don't get the same problem. video post is only meant to be use for hard stuff and you need a h**** of a lot of ram to use video post IMHO.

I am not sure why they add both the glow in the video post and in the environment and effects , maybe it's a better glow effect in video post but i don't see any difference between the two.

the other problem i found with environment and effects when you place a light inside an object it doesnt shine through you put have to place the light outside the object to make it shine. 

[hagen.deloss]

Hey @NHHiker

Super happy the glow effect worked out for you, great suggestion @irishman_team_kilber!!

Yeah the two issue could be related, sorry it's taking a little while to get to the bottom of this one! Fro those following this thread, we are referencing this issue here.

I will get back to you asap after I talk to a few folks in development about the issue.

[NHHiker]

@hagen.deloss

If I can clean the simple box scene of unused materials, I'll go back to the 700+MB main project file and do the same cleaning procedure. Then I'll try rendering both ways. That way, we can eliminate these .RPC materials as an issue.

I haven't heard from Archvision yet. May need to send a follow-up with them.

[NHHiker]

Okay so - after much 'hang time' - Max let me select all materials, then delete them all. Took about ten minutes and was getting a "not responding" message, but I just waited it out. When it finished, I saved the file and now it's 656kb. Right where it should be. So that was definitely the issue.

Doing a little more experimentation and will report back.

Thanks for all the help so far. A root cause/solution would be nice - be it from Autodesk or Archvision.

[irishman_team_kilber]

@NHHikermaybe your scenes to heavy? have you tried add an optimize modifier to reduce the amount of polys it the optimize modifier will reduce the scene weight about 50% as i am using max 9 they mite of improve the optimize modifier by now this is just a suggestion

[NHHiker]

@irishman_team_kilber

Well, that would certainly make working with the project file faster. It wasn't originally supposed to be this complicated. But then again, the problem doesn't seem to stem from complexity.

I think I've noticed that Max makes TWO passes on the Preparing Lights section of the render dialog when in Video Post, but only one using the standard render option. I'm going to verify this, then I'll begin deleting objects until I find out what is causing this anomaly as soon as I get another break.

[irishman_team_kilber]

@NHHikernot peaching but you know max it just trial and error sometimes somethings work one way and sometimes things work another way. the more stuff in your scene the long it takes to render as you know,

[NHHiker]

@irishman_team_kilber

No problem. Didn't read your message that way and I agree with you.

So let's revisit this issue with a workable sample file (teapots.max; attached) For reference, I use the simple scanline renderer at 1280x720). In deleting objects here and there from the big problem file, I found the culprit to be tied to a single Spot light. I deleted all objects from the larger scene except the spot light. I then added a box and nine teapots to create the attached test file.

If I render from Camera001 on my system, it takes about 4 seconds. If I add that camera to Video Post as the only event, it takes about 18 seconds to render.

If I delete the spot light, it takes about 3-4 seconds to render using the camera and about 3-4 seconds to render using the camera in Video Post.

So the problem appears to be linked to existence of the Spot light. Or so I thought... I deleted that Spot light, then added a brand new one. Having that light also introduces results in longer render times. There's something residual in the scene which is tripping up VP, right? Er... what further confuses things (to me) is that if I reset Max and import the camera, light, box and teapots, the issue still exists.

Maybe someone can start their own version of Max (2019), merge the objects, and see if they can recreate the problem?

Thanks,

John