URGENT - 2023.2 update cannot open scenes created previous 2023 version?

[JezEmin]

I've tried opening scenes created using 2019, 2022 etc and 2023.2 opens those fine.

But.... 2023.2 does NOT open scenes I've created using 2023.1?????????????????????????????

PLEASE, PLEASE AUTODESK FIX THIS ASAP - I have projects I have created using 2023 and need to work on URGENTLY.

Thank you.

[DanielCantin]

I can assure you we don't like to be in this position more than you do, we know how disruptive this issue can be and are working as fast as we can, doing our best to verify we don't introduce new issues with the fix, its progressing well and we are planning to release it as soon as it is ready. We can't say when.

Thank you all for your patience, we are asking if you can bear with us a bit longer.

We are also taking notes of your feedbacks, I'm very impressed by the overall constructive feedbacks we received, your help with the scenes you provided and that we validated the fix against, your deductions in the cause of the issue, as well as how you are helping each other during the incident.  Thank you.

[K.W.J.P.]

unbelievable and embarrassing.

this is an excellent Autodesk Special as it´s best: no testing is going in-house.

otherwise, these big mistakes should never happen.

[nils.deitmers]

It’s very disappointing, I agree.
I contacted support and opened a ticket, waiting for a response.
Every time my work is noticably impacted so I have to keep my managers in the loop I feel kind of stupid. I’m using paid software after all in order for these things to NOT happen.

My colleagues who are using Blender are never reporting any such issues.
I can appreciate the fact that 3DS Max is much older, bigger and at this point probably quite convoluted.
But I’m not happy with the way Autodesk is just ignoring issues for years.

The reason I came to look if there were any hot fixes or updates in the first place was because I had crashes every time I tried to switch workspaces, and the workspace I was currently using had the “good old” issue with the track bar not showing in the UI.
Imagine how happy I was to find out I couldn’t even open my scenes anymore. So tomorrow morning instead of modeling I will have to roll back Max.

The other week I had a chat with support about the fact that shift cloning/extruding polygons underneath a shell and chamfer modifier crashes Max with a very high chance, even on simple geometry.
It’s seems such a common thing to do.
At least a nice human being responded and wax able to reproduce the issue.
Supposedly they’re “on it”. Let’s see..

[K.W.J.P.]

we are slowly being oppressed because many of us simply have to work with it and let us suck out a lot of money for such lame service. That's right: Blender can do so much, will certainly perform even better in the future, but is innovative, which the waterhead only notices when he is being overtaken. Then it will be too late. And fat cats will through this programm away like dead leaves.

So, Bugs keep being created instead of being removed. The quad menu in 2023 is e.g. if you make it larger, it is sometimes no longer legible or is on top of each other. you cant read it completly. That was not the case in Max 2022. There is a bug in the UV editor when packing.. that wasn't so, it worked in 2022 - now it doesn't anymore What is this shitty aggravation of everything? ... what's the point of that!? Take a look at the material editor: if you click on arrange automatically, the nodes at a certain connection, the last ones in the node tree, always fly far away. What's that supposed to mean? Why doesn't anyone see this and can't fix the crap? You don't expect that from a customer, do you? Statesets are still completely unusable. Weld them out and make proper render layers in like Maya has. These are just a few examples. Then: UI/ UX is written in very small letters. But this is something that has become a big labour market, especially in recent times. You don't see that here. Why are all icons e.g. displayed in grey in the Scene editor? The object classes were much better to see before the new UI has been introduced some years ago, e.g. Lights are visually almost hidden under objects. Now you have to search hard to recognize it. YOu think Icons are overestimated? Well, then remove it. The record Button in statesets is grey while beeing recording.... wtf? Where else does that happen? You think oh errr.. state sets are not useful anyways..? REMOVE THEM.

You have to beg here for any improvements. for years. thus Autodesk saves the expensive acquisition of employees who should actually do something like this as product managers. It is questionable what they are paid for, or what their field of tasks looks like... fat cat-like? one notices that Autodesk does not have to think success-oriented

Folks, the only thing that remains is Everyone, absolutely everyone at once - you stop subscribing. Then the fat cat might wake up... That's the problem with the monopoly. That's the big crap though
the monopolist doesn't give a ****. He has the power. That's how it is here.

[K.W.J.P.]

we are slowly being oppressed because many of us simply have to work with it and let us suck out a lot of money for such lame service. That's right: Blender can do so much, will certainly perform even better in the future, but is innovative, which the waterhead only notices when he is being overtaken. Then it will be too late. And fat cats will through this programme away like dead leaves.

So, Bugs keep being created instead of being removed. The quad menu in 2023 is e.g. if you make it larger, it is sometimes no longer legible or is on top of each other. you cant read it completely. That was not the case in Max 2022. There is a bug in the UV editor when packing.. that wasn't so, it worked in 2022 - now it doesn't anymore What is this shitty aggravation of everything? ... what's the point of that!? Take a look at the material editor: if you click on arrange automatically, the nodes at a certain connection, the last ones in the node tree, always fly far away. What's that supposed to mean? Why doesn't anyone see this and can't fix the crap? You don't expect that from a customer, do you? Statesets are still completely unusable. Weld them out and make proper render layers in like Maya has. These are just a few examples. Then: UI/ UX is written in very small letters. But this is something that has become a big labour market, especially in recent times. You don't see that here. Why are all icons e.g. displayed in grey in the Scene editor? The object classes were much better to see before the new UI has been introduced some years ago, e.g. Lights are visually almost hidden under objects. Now you have to search hard to recognize it. Do YOu think Icons are overestimated? Well, then remove them. The record Button in state sets is grey while being recorded.... wtf? Where else does that happen? Do you think - oh errr.. state sets are not useful anyways..? This is also very right. --> remove it.

You have to beg here for any improvements. for years. thus Autodesk saves the expensive acquisition of employees who should actually do something like this as product managers. It is questionable what they are paid for, or what their field of tasks looks like... fat cat-like? one notices that Autodesk does not have to think success-oriented

Folks, the only thing that remains is Everyone, absolutely everyone at once - you stop subscribing. Then the fat cat might wake up... That's the problem with the monopoly. That's the big crap though
the monopolist doesn't give a ****. He has the power. That's how it is here.

Sorry for this maybe harsh words, but if you look closely enough, you see some truth in here, don´t you? This is also not only my opinion, even if I am convinced I might say here some true words, but I also know that many are thinking so, which encourages me to talk openly about this big issue.

Best Regards anyway! And we all hope the best.

[nils.deitmers]

Well, I think a lot of users share your frustration. Myself included.
But Autodesk does NOT have a monopoly at all. Quite the opposite.

Personally I think 3DS Max has a similar advantage over Blender like Zbrush over Mudbox. The established software has more features and it's also more refined in the key areas and some smaller details that you only realize when they are missing. Mudbox can't possibly catch up.
But Blender can and will. Maybe it depends on the industry. For example in games production the tasks that you really need out of the software are getting more and more specialized. So as a professional you'll want to use whatever software covers a part of your pipeline the best and integrates without constant hick ups.

I used to be very attached to 3DS Max, as I've been using it for almost 30 years now. There's a lot of specific functions that you pick up in such a long time and now I'm able to approach different things from different angles at ease.
At the same time for many years now my actual day to day use of 3DS Max was usually limited to a very repetitive use of the same features. Essentially the basic modeling and unwrapping not even skinning and rigging, depending on the project.
So when I remember  working for mobile games I think a scenario where different artists are using Maya and 3DS Max for the sake of convenience is a thing of the past.
The new generation is learning Blender and many companies already specifically ask for it in their job descriptions.
All of this goes to say: I agree that Autodesk needs to keep an eye on the market and justify the price tag on 3DS Max.
Things like the array modifier in 2023 are just that kind of premium feature (not that it was their idea of course it was actually around as a 3rd party tool and overdue), but introducing bugs and more importantly failing to eliminate the ones that have been around for years is not going to help their case.

As a last comment: I was a bit shocked to learn that the Unwrella plugin that I've been using for unwrapping now has a free version for Blender. The reason I know is because I researched a specific feature: being able to pin a UV island while packing the rest around it. And now get this: The Blender version of the plugin actually has that feature, while the Max version I paid for does not.
So yeah, not a good time to get comfortable for Autodesk, but neither for us. At some point instead of venting we'll just convert, and that was that then.
  

[K.W.J.P.]

Monopoly - you are right - it´s a big word for that. Blender still needs some development - but is on the other hand innovative like hell. ( I unfortunately still have to learn about blender, but all the things I see speak true words. Performance with huge scenes is somehow still a big issue I heard.

And yes, there you grab another Point: Autodesk is simply buying very often tools for big improvements from 3rd party developers and implements them either in Max and Maya. Unfortunately often also not very well...

Other are doing the Job well and AD pays only for production-ready stuff. Like TyFlow. Tough Guy developing - i think alone - such next level plugin for Max? Another fantastic goal maybe.

This gives us another question, what all (how much is all?) developers' power @ AD is doing?

Are they silently preparing a complete modernization among the whole package and there will a surprising day? 

Well dreaming only for sure.

Unrwrella... yes funny - but maybe it´s like online shopping with IOS and Android: About Apple users may be thought, they will pay more for anything. Android users are buying more cheaper (of course not in all cases) People from IP´s  from Munich /London etc. getting other online prizes like maybe in a not-so-expensive cities. It is strange at all... bad luck 🙂

[logan_foster_adsk]

I am pleased to share that an update to 3ds Max, version 2023.2.2, is now available to download through the Autodesk Desktop App (ADA) or through the manage.autodesk.com download portal. This update resolves an issue with Chamfer operations in 3ds Max 2023.2 which resulted in the software entering an endless loop and becoming unresponsive either when loading files (locking up at 73% load) or when applying a Chamfer (through the Chamfer modifier, or Editable Poly or the Edit Poly modifier) to edges that connected to an open edge on your mesh data when using “Limit Effect”.

On behalf of the 3ds Max team I would like to thank everyone who took the time to share their scenes and report this issue to us, your help enabled us to quickly confirm and resolve the issue.

I would also like to take another opportunity to apologize for this issue. We are all as deeply disappointed as you are that this issue shipped with 2023.2, and we hope that with 2023.2.2, and future releases of 3ds Max, will resume the positive trend of releases that provided the stability, features, and functionality that assists you to create expressive content and share creative experiences in your work.

Logan Foster
Product Owner at Autodesk for 3ds Max

[kay.hodson]

Hey All,  The 3ds Max Regression in 2023.2 has a hotfix! you can download update 2023.2.2 from autodesk.com or the autodesk desktop app.

[nils.deitmers]

It's not yet in the app, but on the site it's available:

https://manage.autodesk.com/products/3DSMAX

[tom837ZJ]

It's still an issue. For me, none of the updates work. I have to install Max 2023 and it works fine. But update .1 .2 or .2.2 all freeze and crash. I've just spent three hours uninstalling and reinstalling. 

[nils.deitmers]

Sorry to hear!

I assume you tried with different scenes to confirm it’s really this issue and not a corrupted file?

After uninstalling I would make sure all folders are actually gone and restart the machine.

I hope support is able to help!

[tom837ZJ]

I've only been using Max 2023 for the last few weeks, before that I was using Max 2020. It was the same on two different machines. I installed all versions of Max 2023 - the original one, .1 update .2 update and .2.2 update. The only one I could open the Max file in was the original one. When I created the file I created it in the original version of Max 2023.

I only realised it was a problem when I sent the file to render through backburner and it tried rendering on Max 2023.2 and it kept crashing. The same as mentioned before - it gets to 73% on finalizing load - whatever that means. It just hangs and then crashes.

It works fine without any updates. So I've rolled my machines back to the base version of 2023 and it works fine. 

[ads_czechoj]

From the description of your workflow with the backburner, I see that you didn't update the backburner with the patch 2023.2.2. The backburner is trying to open the file, and without the patch, it will crash. Are you using a rendering "farm" or any other machine (server) which didn't have a 2023.2.2 patch?

[tom837ZJ]

I didn't realise there was a backburner patch. I'll have to update. I just have the one render computer, it's a dual EPYC machine with 128 cores, so it's powerful enough, just on it's own.

When it wouldn't open through backburner I tried opening it directly using max, and that's when I realised it was crashing. Because it wouldn't open through backburner and also wouldn't open just as a file on it's own.

I installed every version of max 2023 on my workstation and on my render pc and the only version which would directly open the file was the original version of max 2023. None of the updates .1 .2 .2.2 worked. They all crashed.

Do you have a download link to the patch for backburner? When I go to the autodesk backburner download page I just see this version 'Version 2019, 1/9/2020'. 

Thanks, Tom

[ads_czechoj]

There is no additional patch for a burner. I meant that the render PC must have the exact new 3ds Max (2023.2.2) update as your working PC.

[tom837ZJ]

Oh, I see. Thank you. My misunderstanding.

I believe it's some incompatibility to do with the chamfer modifier. So, I'll update max after this project and try with the new chamfer modifier. If I'd had Max 2023.2 installed on both machines from the start I don't believe it would have been a problem. But now the problem is I can't update max or the scene wont open.

[ads_czechoj]

Great. Please update (at any time you will fill comfortable doing it) both machines with the patch, 2023.2.2. The Chamfer was the main problem for this to happen in the first place. We may ask you to transfer your max file to us if you have any issues. In this case, we could pinpoint the problem much faster.

[tom837ZJ]

I can send the max file to you, I just need an email address to send it to. I don't want it to be available for everyone, but I'm happy to send to you. You can also send an email to my profile email address and I can send it from there. 

Thanks again, Tom 

[ads_delesdr]

Tom, did you happen to record the CER id numbers from your crash reports? This would help us understand what issue you are hitting with your file.

-Rick