Transform Gizmo flip flopping in 2022

[open-range]

since i started using Max 2022 the behavior of the move transform gizmo has become semi erratic and problematic to work with.

When I move a simple geometry object like Box - for instance, in front or right views I have move selected and "view" as reference coordinate system and use pivot point center. Select the box. Transform gizmo appears. Y axis is point up and X is pointing right. So far so good. When I wove the cursor over the Y axis the gizmo instantly flips to showing Z as being up and Y pointing to the left. Fine movements of the cursor cause a rapid flip flopping back and forth between the expected Y up and X right gizmo to the unwanted Z up and Y left gizmo. If I lock the selection and have Y selected int he transform axis toolbar, then it works OK.

Any ideas what's causing this an dhow I might fix it? I have never had this problem before with any of the past versions of Max (I have used them all). It's a having a real tedious and semi frustrating impact on my basic work flow. TIA for any help.

[darawork]

Hi,

I too have had this happen before, years ago, but it has not happened in ages and I can't reproduce it.
The one thing that was briefly touched on in some of the above comments, but not in more recent comments is Graphics Drivers. I feel this side of the puzzle needs to be looked at more.
User interaction with Max relies a lot on the Graphics Drivers overlay with the interface; from resolving display abnormailties or viewing whole menus, or even picking objects on the screen. It's like if you were using an out of date perscription for reading glasses. Use an outdated perscription and you find yourself stumbling along, knocking into things and pointing in the general direction of objects, but not directly at them. I think something similar is happening here. You are pointing at something, but the translation is getting blurred in software.

It looks to me like Max is thinking "Oh, you're pointing at this, oh no hold on, are you pointing at this instead, no wait, actually...etc" meanwhile the Transform Gizmo is flopping like a fish out of water.

This is why coordinate systems have been questioned.

I would be looking into trying out different graphics drivers, be they the latest Game Ready or Studio drivers.
I would also be looking at base level Monitor Drivers, Colourspaces, Mouse Drivers and if even, outdated Windows componants or the general age of your Windows installation, Is it an updated OS from a previous version like 8 or 10?

The fact of the matter is simple; It doesn't happen to everyone, or else the board would be full of similar threads going back years... So why is it happening in this case, and a supposid small number of other cases?

Just a few things to think about, before shooting the messenger and blaming solely 3DSMax.

I hope you get this sorted,
Regards

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

Thanks for good suggestions - it sounds like good reasoning to what may cause the problem. Im not going to revert back windows though - thats going to take hours/days, but GPU drivers is possible to try. I am though on the latest Studio Drivers, which I assume many are - on windows 11 - so it would be weird if it then was the case and I would assume it would affect more people. If only Autodesk would be participating here, I would gladly help out giving them a scene or troubleshoot for them. 

Blaming Autodesk, well. I'm, not blaming them for the fact that bugs exist in 3DsMax - but I blame them for completely not caring about problems and answering the forums and helping people out - and basically doing the bare minimum to keep the software alive. Even though its a problem only for a few, it still is a bug in 3ds Max. It doesn't happen in Substance painter and not in Zbrush...And yet, the software I pay the most for is 3DS Max. That should count for something (?) 

[Diffus3d]

Filing a support ticket is definitely the way to go.  For me it's usually my coordinate system that is the problem and I just change it to something else, but the issue may not be the same between us.  

These forums are mostly user forums, so for the most part nothing reported here is officially logged from here.  But if you file a support ticket, it has to get logged and you should get some kind of guidance on a fix if there is one.   Or at least, be sure that the issue is on the radar.  

[quinnredshift]

After experimenting, it seems to be 100% related to whether you're in View or Local mode.

I've only had the gizmo go nuts in Local mode.

It's not a fix, but it's something.

[darawork]

Hi,

There is nothing quite like a fresh installation of windows, much like a fresh pair of underwear.
Also it keeps you on your toes, knowing that you can do it, and it is a possibility and not such a dreaded chore.
A lot of people, myself included, don't get the opportunity to do it in a work environment and in place have to back/forth with the IT dept when something is amiss, or needs to be updated or you want to try out some new software/drivers. That is truely painful. Whereas on my home PC, if the software starts to get soggy or unruly... it's getting formatted, no questions asked. I trust the big name software companies a lot more than I trust my own ability to nitpick problems running on a melange of outdated software and 3rd party plug-ins.
If something doesn't work as it is supposed to, when everything is fresh and updated, out of the box as it were, then I will go on a rampage until it's sorted.
As for AutoDesk appearing to ignore apparent small scale 'bugs', over in favour of items deemed of more importance; Unfortunately this is the way it operates, so I have heard. Dev teams are taken, sometimes unwillingly off trying to fix things in favour of what their bosses want to see them working on, no excuses. Even if it does lead to a few disgruntled users. All we can do is pester, petition and vote on ideas, (or join the Beta Program), until the noise becomes too much to ignore.
Expert Elites are the chosen voice of the user base, they do not work for AutoDesk, but respect and understand the processes behind their actions, or inactions as the case may be. All I can hope for is that this is that #A this not a bug, #B if it is a bug, then it gets sorted... if enough people complain that it is in fact a bug and not down to 'user error' (which is a horrible term of phrase, but in a lot of cases, I have had to swallow my pride and admit "I broke it, it was me").

Regards,

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

Yeah I have a new PC on order, which I will get by the end of the month. Then I will get a a fresh install. But I'm 99% sure I've had this problem on my "office" computer as well as previous machines. But I'll review that later. Only thing that could cause this that could come to mind is that I keep my ENU folder so I dont have to install every script and 3ds max setup between every 3ds max update -  and it might have created some weird bugs. I'll make sure to not do that this time. 

About Autodesk and bug fixes and feature updates. There are a few updates, like the last one they made with conform modifier, which seem like there are some activity. But there has been years where it felt like the only thing we got is a chamfer modifier update and so on - and Tyflow alone (one man team) seemed to do more than the entire Autodesk company. And compared to softwares like blender which get a plethora of new features every year, while still being free, I'm personally not always amazed by Autodesk, tbh.  But that's just me - and we all vote with our wallet, so if I'm too unhappy its only myself that can do something about it. I still think, when you pay for something you should be allowed make complaints and Autodesk should listen. There are bugs here that has been a ton of people complaining about for years (no small scale "bug"), like autosave, and it still took Autodesk years to make something that still is just a half baked solution.   

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

I'm 99% sure it was buggy for me even when I switched between local, screen and world. But today 3ds max has played nice so I can't reproduce it. Yesterday it was behaving like this all day long. ...weird one. 

[darawork]

Hi, yeah, the idea of recycling and re-using the ENU folder between product versions gives me a twitchy eye. 
I can imagine that a lot changes happen between vesions, down to a microscopic level, and forcing a square peg into a triangle hole comes to mind. I have thought about doing it myself, I think I even tried it once just out of frustration about having no customisations follow between versions, I don't think it ended well. Lots of errors afaicr.
As a test, if you say that the flopping is repeatible, even with a fresh scene with only one single box, it might be a very good idea to temporarily rename your ENU with 3DSMax closed, restart Max again and see if the flopping behaviour can be repeated? If so, then it's obviously something else. But I'd be curious anyways.

Oh, and premature Happy New PC day! 🙂

Regards,

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

Thank you 😀

[archusain.90]

I have another workaround that I use sometimes. I change the scene's rotation ever so slightly to make it Orthographic, make the changes/moves I need, then switch the view back. For instance, if I'm in Front View, trying to move a box to the right and this jumping cursor issue shows up, I click Alt + middle mouse button to slightly rotate the view, then I move the box. It will be switched to Orthographic view, so be sure to reset the view with Shift + Z (multiple times, depending on how many zooms/pans/rotations you did). Or just manually change the view to Front again.

I hope this helps.

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

I have now located when it happens. It only happens in quadratic view in the bottom left and top right window. I have also sent the file to another user which are on the beta program, he got the same problem when he opened the scene. So therefor it is not my setup or my machine, it is re-producible. It usually happens when you have made object with not the correct axis (meaning not starting making the object from the top view)...but once it has started it is difficult to remove it. 

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

So, just tested 3ds Max 2025. The bug is still there, even though I provided a scene with the bug and Autodesk confirmed that they were able to reproduce it - and I explained exactly when and how it happens. I mean, this company (Autodesk), are there anyone even working on developing 3ds Max anymore? 3ds Max 2025 has practically no new features to speak of, and they don't even care to fix obvious bugs that are easily reproduceable. I feel such a shame that I accept paying for this software anymore.

[open-range]

Sad. It's such a big failure of the most basic functionality. It wasn't always a problem but was introduced so long ago i can't remember when it started. Extremely tedious and frustrating to deal with many times all day every day when working on an project. sheeesh x 10.

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

Yeah the entire 3ds Max development is just depressing - even bugs are ignored...Time to move on to something else... 

[quinnredshift]

Moving on is hard.

I tried Blender and was like, "This UI is completely different...oh, ugh; I don't wanna start from scratch!"

3DS MAX is my Fahrenheit. 

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

Yes I know what you mean. It feels like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

[luc]

It's still there?!?!?!?! That is crazy! Why cant they fix the ability to move an object? I think that function is pretty fundamental to a 3D application. I was going to update to 2025, but looking at the 'feature' list and the fact that this stupid bug where you can't move an object on the correct axis, means I definitely won't be.

So frustrating!

[quinnredshift]

I can't nail it down, but it sure does seem to relate to whether snapping is on our off and whether you're using View, Local, Working, etc...but the cause doesn't seem consistent, so I'm having a hard time replicating it. The gizmo will go all cattywampus for what seems like no good reason, but when it does, it seems to be related to the above.

Using a Working point a lot during the modeling phase of my current project, I see this issue less and less, which is why I think it's related to the type of transform gizmo you're using.

[joachimbarrumX79N5]

I have nailed it down. I happens with all views (local, screen, world etc) it happens if you have created one or more objects that has been made with different axis. like one made from top and one made from side. It ONLY happens in the upper right and lower left of the quadratic view, weirdly enough - so if you are working with only one big view you will not experience it. I have delivered a scene with the bug apparent to Autodesk a long time ago, explained how and when it happens, I also filed a bug and talked to support, and they have responded that they were able to replicate the bug. But does it matter,...no, because Autodesk don't care to fix anything! 

[quinnredshift]

I could get into why I feel MAX does object-creation in counter-intuitive ways (down from the Top view is forward instead of up being forward???)...but I won't.

But the fact that the  gizmo for an object will be pointed in a different direction based on the window in which it was created seems nutty. I choose a window based on how easy it is to eyeball the shape I'm gonna need...doesn't mean I committing to an orientation!

But now I see that it's inconvenient in more than one way.