Multiple 3ds Max instances open + Saving = Lag

[DGTLTWNS]

Hi,

I have a few reports of people with 3ds Max 2020, 2022, 2023 (haven't tested 2021) slowing down our workstations, when multiple instances of 3ds Max are open and (auto)saving.

I have recorded a video of this here: https://youtu.be/zzsiOCMhHr8

First part of the video is me saving with only one instance open. Second part (00:18) is with a second file open in another instance. As you can see my workstation grinds to a halt and my cursor is barely moving. It seems I'm not the only one. This started happening a couple of months ago. Maybe a Windows update caused this or something. I looked at my Windows 10 update history in the last half year and most of them are .NET updates.

Can people with the same experience confirm, and could Autodesk investigate this please, because this is super annoying.

Thank you.

[DGTLTWNS]

No, I know you're not working for ADSK, maybe you misunderstood the tone of my message, all in good faith.

Their support said, turn off SMT and all will be fine, then closed my case. Turns out it doesn't even help.

[Diffus3d]

Please accept my apology for the misunderstanding.  I am for some reason feeling jumpy tonight.   I would reopen if you can, I believe that is an option.  

That being said, there very well might be a problem in 3dsmax.  I don't want to say there isn't.  But usually when there is a big max problem, they can find it in testing and they always at least acknowledge there is a problem.  But if that's not happening here, so I think it's a hard to discover specific combo of things.   Thanks so much for taking the time. 

Best Regards,

[DGTLTWNS]

No worries, with my last hostile replies towards ADSK, it's easy to misunderstand someone's attitude ;-).

I'll probably reopen once I received enough replies on the typeform, so we at least have somewhat more to go on. 10 replies (including 2 of my own workstations). I'm hoping to have at least 30 some, so please share as much as possible even with people with AMD Ryzen CPUs that don't have that problem.

[hellojoea]

just another example of the issue, im having right now....I have two different max files open at the same time, im trying to merge some files into one of the copies of max and it just hangs/freezes for several minutes, i cant move the mouse, switch to another program etc. If i close the 2nd copy of max so i only have one version of max open and then go to merge as before there is no hanging, it does it instantly with no issue. it makes no sense

[Diffus3d]

Is there anything weird in your Event Viewer Logs?   Errors may show up in Applications or System.  

Best Regards,

[DGTLTWNS]

I've checked this, I also used process explorer and nothing came up.

[DGTLTWNS]

I even asked Chat GPT what could be the cause, because who knows. The answer:

There are many reasons why this issue could be occurring. Let's break down a few possibilities that might cause your software to perform differently on some AMD Ryzen CPUs:

1. **Concurrency Issues:** When more than one instance of your software is open, there could be concurrency issues. This is especially likely if your software uses multithreading and each instance is trying to use the same cores, leading to resource contention. You might want to look into thread handling in your code.

2. **Compatibility Issues:** There may be some compatibility issues with the instruction set that is utilized by your software and the AMD Ryzen CPUs. AMD and Intel CPUs have slightly different microarchitectures and performance characteristics, which can sometimes lead to discrepancies in performance.

3. **Power Management:** AMD Ryzen processors use a different power management method compared to other CPUs. If your software is heavily reliant on power management or makes assumptions about CPU clock speed or availability, this could potentially cause issues.

4. **Software Optimization:** AMD Ryzen processors have their unique architecture and may require specific optimizations for your software to work correctly. For example, their CCX (core complex) and Infinity Fabric design might be causing latency issues when your software tries to communicate between threads across different CCXs.

5. **Thermal Throttling:** If the Ryzen CPU is overheating for some reason, it will throttle back its performance to avoid damage. This is less likely if the problem only occurs with your software, but it's something to consider.

6. **Driver or BIOS issues:** It might be an issue with the drivers or the BIOS version on those specific machines. Check if there are any updates available for the AMD drivers or the BIOS.

7. **Memory Issues:** Ryzen CPUs are known to be sensitive to RAM speed and latency due to their Infinity Fabric design. If your software is particularly memory-intensive, it might behave differently on systems with different memory configurations.

In order to debug this problem, you would want to collect as much information as possible from the affected systems. This could include hardware specifications, operating system versions, driver versions, and any error logs or crash dumps your software produces. It might also be beneficial to profile your software running on an affected system to see if you can identify any performance bottlenecks.

If your software is written in a high-level language, you might also want to look into whether your compiler has any flags for optimizing code specifically for AMD Ryzen CPUs.

In summary, the issue could be a wide range of things, but by starting with these possibilities, you can begin to troubleshoot and hopefully find a solution.

[Diffus3d]

That's strange for sure.  

[DGTLTWNS]

I was already starting to suspect RAM timings to be the culprit a while back, but now I'm starting to suspect it even more. Might be worth posting timings as well. You can check these in Ryzen Master. 

I'll start with mine, see attached screenshot.

[info2V35E]

I don't have the expertise to know if mine is problematic. See attached

[Diffus3d]

Edit; Whoops, wrong thread.

[ArcHouse43]

Hello guys, 

Just thought I would note AMD supports response to me just in case it was of use. Their recommendation was a BIOS update which achieved nothing, the problem still persists. They then suggested to reinstall with a fresh operating system, Install the latest chipset driver and then install the latest graphics driver- Which I have not had time to do yet.

Also, for the record my specs are;

3ds max 2021,

Vray 6

Plugins: - Forestpack/Railclone

PC Spec -

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X

128GB RAM

Windows 10

Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080

And just to confirm the issue I am experiencing is complete computer lag seemingly triggered by saving, loading and closing 3Ds Max files when multiple instances of Max are open.

[DGTLTWNS]

You're confirming this on a near identical system as one of mine. 

The fresh operating system I will be willing to try at some point, who knows, but I don't think so. And no time for this now. 

Anyway we were only able to collect 11 responses. I don't see any common thing unfortunately, I think we need more data on RAM timings perhaps. If someone wants to take a look: here are the results: CLICK

[DGTLTWNS]

Also noted that I had a lot of stuttering issues due to TPM being enabled, I thought putting it on discreetTPM solved it but apparently he automatically puts it in fTPM again if you don't have a seperate TPM installed. Took me a while to find the menu to disable it. No more stuttering (audio), that's at least something. 

If there would be any experts on ram timings or how to configure optimal timings or tighter ones maybe for this case, I want to give that a try as well.

[info2V35E]

Just to chime in, I have TPM disabled (set to discreet) and have had so for a long time. Also on Win 10 so I don't think that's the common thread.

[Diffus3d]

It does tell us a lot though. 

• It's definitely Ryzen 9 and Threadripper (all gens) which is interesting.  So it's probably not a new feature causing the problem.  
• It's not specific to a version of Windows. 
• Asus is on there an awful lot for motherboards.  Most folks with the problem are running Asus.  Perhaps a BIOS issue then?   (The ahci vs. ide on ssd perhaps?) 
• TPM not showing as a cause, though it was worth a look see.  Confirmed by previous post.  
• SMT still a maybe, imho.  
• Versions go back to 2018/2020 and beyond, so it's not likely something that happened in a recent patch or update. 
• A lot of similar plugins but varied enough between users.  Doesn't seem specific to one plugin.   If someone does try to reinstall windows, hopefully they check how performance is before installing plugins.  I think this haystack might be too big to find the needle without some more data. 
• It looks like some folks are only having the problem when rendering, which I think is a different issue related to IPR on Vray and fixed in a recent update as reported by another user earlier in the thread.  (iirc.)  

Still, narrows things down.  Everything sort of points to either a system issue, a motherboard/BIOS issue, or something along those lines.  Maybe two drivers conflicting or... something.  

Best Regards,

[DGTLTWNS]

Yeah I've noticed the ASUS motherboard too, but one user reported this on a MSI, and another one x570 but that could be from any brand. If that would be an ASUS, then maybe ASUS and MSI have a problem.

[info2V35E]

x570 is me. it's asus

[DGTLTWNS]

Ah so you have two workstations, both asus. Would be good if we could confirm this with more people not having this with none MSI or ASUS motherboards.

[hellojoea]

asus mother board here

havent had time to fill in the questionnaire yet, Ill try and do today