Multiple 3ds Max instances open + Saving = Lag

[DGTLTWNS]

Hi,

I have a few reports of people with 3ds Max 2020, 2022, 2023 (haven't tested 2021) slowing down our workstations, when multiple instances of 3ds Max are open and (auto)saving.

I have recorded a video of this here: https://youtu.be/zzsiOCMhHr8

First part of the video is me saving with only one instance open. Second part (00:18) is with a second file open in another instance. As you can see my workstation grinds to a halt and my cursor is barely moving. It seems I'm not the only one. This started happening a couple of months ago. Maybe a Windows update caused this or something. I looked at my Windows 10 update history in the last half year and most of them are .NET updates.

Can people with the same experience confirm, and could Autodesk investigate this please, because this is super annoying.

Thank you.

[RobH2]

I'll keep an eye on it and let you know if I have the problem or have any ideas. I'm afraid this is out of my skillset. I hope on one of the Autodesk techs can work with you to solve it. I'd start getting creative as to who you can write here and at Autodesk to try to get some help. Might be worth paying for some tech support if they have that as an option. I've done that a few times in the past and it solved my issues for less than $100. 

[info2V35E]

Likely nobody is checking because it's marked as solved...

[Diffus3d]

The best thing to do now is submit a support case at this point.  There's a lot of info here that could help at least log the issue if hasn't been already.  (Or identify what is happening.)  If you want something official, submit a ticket at manage.autodesk.com.

Best Regards,

[info2V35E]

Yeah I can confirm if opening/saving/closing a second instance is back to its old behavior. 

Updated to 2023.3 today and cleared the %temp% file but no good.

As a second instance loads, the first instance's viewport is totally unrepsonvive. Once the second instance finishes loading, all the operations that I attempted to make in the first instance happen instantly.

[RobH2]

I'm not finding exactly the same lag as the thread mentions, but I upgraded to Windows 11 x64 two weeks ago and I find that Max is sluggish compared to my use with it on Windows 10 for a lot of years. Everything just seems slower and Forest Pack is almost unusable with VRay. I realize Itoo's and Chaos's code is not necessarily the responsibility of Autodesk and I'll report things there as well. But, all in all, I'm not happy about Max on Windows 11 to be honest and it's too late go back now. I don't have the ability to do 1-to-1 tests of the same file in Win10 and Win11 so my feeling is anecdotal, but having used Max on Win10 for so long, Win11 is not nearly as fast with it. 

[info2V35E]

I wanted to note that just now I am experiencing that file operations (open/save/closing max [presumably max is saving preferences]) only causes a system lockup when operations are carried out by the second instance of max. The first instance does not cause the lockup for me, right here, right now. Can anyone else confirm if it's only the 2nd instance that is causing the issue?

[info2V35E]

No that was incorrect. Both instances during any sort of file opening or saving causes the slowdown.

[DGTLTWNS]

I have some news regarding the case that I opened:

Your request has been reviewed and assigned an official code in our development database, BSPR-109731: Multiple instances of 3ds Max can reduce save speed. I did receive your email and the additional information allowed me to log this!

I will now plan to close this case on Monday. 

Not sure what they actually meant with closing, but I asked. Will keep you guys posted.

[info2V35E]

This is good news.

[DGTLTWNS]

I have a little more info. Case is closed because devs now are looking into it. Answer from support:

As such, there is no present solution, the current state of 3ds Max with the hardware present on your machine does this by default.

I tested this and reproduced the issue on my machine. We had another specialist using different hardware specs who could not see the issue. If you need a temporary workaround of the problem, I would suggest checking on another machine.

[DGTLTWNS]

And some more, turns out that it's hyperthreading causing the issue. Disabling SMT in bios should alleviate the problems, but that kind of defeats the purpose for rendering...

That's correct, SMT (simultaneous multi-threading) threadrippers have been seen to cause this issue. There are other hardware situations that experience the issue as well. I would suggest alternative machines to that end, or by disabling SMT on boot.

[RobH2]

That's not such good news as the solution is neither to disable SMT nor to buy other machines. Autodesk is going to have to dive into the Threadripper kernel and figure how to play nice. There are too many Threadrippers out there for the soltuion to be "cut off the foot that hurts and grab a crutch." 

It'll test it to see what happens but I'm certain I won't be able to live with SMT disabled. After all, like me, for many people Max is just one of many programs we use that all benefit from SMT and is why we have these expensive machines. 

Thanks for the update regardless, even if not so good. 

[kyronLNJPB]

Yeah, this is still a horrendous problem for us and none of the "fixes" have worked. Our studio works with giant scenes and many xref's all day every day. As you can imagine working with only 1 max instance at a time not really possible and incredibly time consuming. (And has never been an issue in any other version of Max before 2023 either!)

The whole team works on very expensive threadripper machines. We're talking a massive investment in hardware for our studio. Is Autodesk seriously saying the solution is "don't use threadrippers anymore, sorry"?! 

[RobH2]

Sounds like a bad Intel conspiracy. Hopefully now that it appears to be widespread whomever is looking into it, if I read the messages above correctly, will find something quickly. 

[RobH2]

I'm just logging this for reference later, and I hope it's not a coincidence. I was just informed by Windows 11 that an update would run tonight so I went ahead and ran it. It was a fast one. When I was back in I tested a Max file. To my surprise, a Progressive IPR render ran a smooth as glass on a file with 9million polys. That hasn't happend in months for me. For the past months, a file with 500K polys would crawl like a snail with IPR running. 

I haven't done any other OS work or optimizations. I hope it's not some sort of temporary functionality. I haven't looked up what was in the most recent update to Win11, but if I take this on face value, things are running like I expect them to. And, with that 9million poly scene, I was getting 50FPS with and IPR render running. 

I'll report back if things change. 

Edit: I've attached a video showing a file with over 11M polys. It runs really nicely for a file this size. None of it is Proxys. Keeping my fingers crossed for now. 

[info2V35E]

I have this issue, but am not on windows 11 fyi

[gandhics]

---

@kyronLNJPB wrote:

And has never been an issue in any other version of Max before 2023 either!)

---

Could you confirm this?
Other users mentioned it is happing in even 3dsMax 2020.

Knowing which version causes the issue is the most important step for solving issues.

[info2V35E]

Personally I can confirm this behavior is not present on Max 2021 on exactly the same workstation.

[DGTLTWNS]

Just want to give an update. I haven't heard back from ADSK regarding this issue. But as I was tired of the problem I decided to fully switch to 3ds Max 2023, to see if the problems persisted.

So far I don't have any problems with multiple instances open and saving lag. 

Will report back if something would change (like last time after it was temporarily solved.)

[RobH2]

I'm glad to see you are able to work now without the lag. It's too bad you didn't hear back from them about it. Have you looked at any version release documents and scanned the bug fixes and update reports to see if there was anything releated to the issue in 2023. It appears that somehing changed between 2022 and 2023 that fixed it in your case. Even if you never know, at least you have good funtionality now as frustrating as it was.