3dsMax 2018 "Load Custom UI" broken.

[revel68]

Hi. I have been using 3dsMax and doing custom UI's for a very long time.

I had heard there were heavy changes going to 2017. So when I installed 2017 I rebuilt my entire setup from the ground up. This took a very very long time. I did custom icons. Rebuilt my entire shortcut setup.  Rebuilt my installation process.   Hand rebuilt my UI.  I did all  of this thinking that 2017 was the big change and I could reuse this work going forward.

Today I installed 3dsMax 2018. I loaded my custom UI like I always have and the entire program looks jacked up.  It is hard to describe but its far from my UI from previous 3dsmax (17, 14, 13, 12 and on and on).  The whole UI looks crazy. There are wide invisible buttons all over below the ribbon. There are whole panels that should and should no longer be around. 

What can I do? Do I have to rebuild my entire setup again!?

It appears my shortcut keys are working.  But for the first time ever my UI is broken. 

NOTE: I reverted to Startup UI and it is still messed up and far from the default!!! Infact I don't think it changed a single thing. Please help.

[revel68]

May be somebody could post the default Custom UI.  I can't get back to it. Its acting like nothing is even happening when I "Revert to Startup" and I forgot to save the default config out before trying mine.

 EDIT : I found a "Reset to Default State" under the Workspaces dialog in the upper right.  

That helped me get back to something that looks reasonable.  Although Already lost some UI elements I had worked on earlier from installing scripts.  So thats gone now.  Might show back up if I try reinstalling.

So I'm guessing i'll have to rebuild my entire UI again?  I had a panel on the UI with customized buttons with images and everything.  Or is there a way to get that moved over?

thanks

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @revel68,

As I understand it the Load/Save UI functions are meant to be used within the same version of 3ds Max for the time being.  There are so many updates to the UI between 2016 and 2017 and 2018 that until the dust settles down there's no reliable way to load the UI's for older versions.  The functions will still work in the same version however.  You may be able to load your hotkeys in with little issue, but I cannot verify it's working perfectly between versions.  Regardless, that should be easy to reset if not.  

My understanding up to a couple days ago was that this had always been this way but I was mistaken.  I have been told that once the QT transition is over then it will be easier to load between versions at that point again. 

The only reliable fix I can recommend is to reset your user settings and rebuild your prefs up from scratch.  I realize that's not ideal.   

Best Regards,

[revel68]

Ok thanks Alfred!

I have another question. I'm building my UI again and I usually dock a custom Toolbar on the left side of the Command Panel.

It's not letting me do that here. It is letting me dock it on the right side of the Command panel or above along the top below the ribbon.

Is there a way I can dock it on the left of the command panel like in previous version?

Thanks.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @revel68,

I see this behavior too, also I can't dock it on the right side of the scene explorer.  But I am able to put the command panel on the right of the scene explorer and the scene explorer on the left of the command panel.  This lets me know that there must be some kind of 'zone' designation to those menus which tells them it's ok to dock next to the viewports.  

I'll be honest, I am not sure how to/if I can fix it.  What I will do however is send some emails internally to see if I can find any information which will make this possible for you.  One of the main UI devs is out on vacation until the 14th or 16th I believe, so there will be a delay before I can reply with more info.  Thank you for your patience. 

I cannot guarantee this is possible, but if it isn't then a Feature Request would be the way to go to get this looked at.  Thanks!

Best Regards,

[revel68]

Thanks Alfred. A lot of people here at Epic are doing that Left-Of-Command docked panel.  I can think of 2 or 3 other people I know who do! 

I heard about how there is a more robust UI system. Is there another way to do it using new tools? This old toolbar thing is really old. You can't even move the buttons around once they are in etc... There isn't much that can be done there.  Has some stuff been added for making new menus etc...?

Thanks again.

[revel68]

Here is an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ugCUXjRdas    This is Rappa tools. Notice how it is docked.  So can you not do this anymore?  

TBH I think that is going to change a lot for power users.  It was said more customization but now it looks like less, from this standpoint.

thanks

[Alfred.DeFlaminis · Accepted solution]

Hello @revel68,

I'm a big fan of UDK, used to teach classes for it at AI Portland, and that was V3.  UDK4 is amazing, you deserve a big pat on the back for that application.  Many years ago I used to play Unreal Tournament for hours at a time with friends, what a fun game.  Ah ok, thanks for letting me reminisce.  

You make some good points and I'll try to address them as best I can.  

The current UI system is utilizing QT now which is made by a 3rd party but integrated by the Max developers.   The reason for the switch to QT was for faster UI responsiveness and better support for high dpi displays and interaction.  At the end of the day, Max has been around a long time and parts of it need to be updated so that the technology can move forward.  Like most things while "Under Construction" there may be some bumps in the road once in a while, but overall it's had a lot of positive upgrades in 2018.

Ok that being said, the toolbar icons not moving is actually a logged issue in the tracker and is not intentional.  Max should be getting a new update to 2018 soon and hopefully that fix is in it.  (I can't reveal contents or timing of update releases.)  So with that particular issue, yeah it's super limited and that is frustrating. 

I did hear back from the UI developer (while he was on vacation, what a guy!) and this is what he said, "Unfortunately the toolbars will only dock on the outer edge of the application. This is a limitation of the current Qt frame system."  I think the key word there is 'current'.  A Feature Request might be a good idea (and if you do one, post the link and I'll vote on it with you).  

It may be worth contacting the author of Rappa Tools (Remus) and seeing if there is workaround to the docking issue.  I can't advise much there, it's over my head.  Given how awesome those tools are and the obvious intelligence of the author, I think some kind of workaround or improvement can be made.

You can make your own menus in Max, I have some information here.  Is that what you meant?

Best Regards,

[revel68]

Here: https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/3ds-max-ideas/toolbar-docking-in-more-places-docking-toolbar-left-of/...

So in my case I'm not using Rappa and I build my own bar.  A lot of us are doing this.  And I normally have it docked on the left side of the Command Panel.  When I tear the menu off it goes horizontal!  So I can't just have it floating. There are no options I can find to make it vertical. I don't know how to turn it in to a vertical menu so the only option I see right now is docking it on the right side of the Command Panel.    

The Rappa thing was just another example and something easy to find a picture of on the internet.  I use my own toolbar.   

That is cool about UDK! The engine is really great right now and anybody can use it.  

Thanks!

[revel68]

Also something interesting. I thought 2017 used QT and you can dock the toolbar just fine.  So I wonder if bringing it back is quite possible by looking at that?

thanks

[revel68]

Sadly even since posting this original thread I've already ran into several show stopping problems in 3dsmax 2018.

One is how smoothing groups work and if you do things to the model like chamfer it completely destroys your work.  Very destructive!

May be I'll make a video with things that i'm seeing that have basically t-boned the power of 3dsmax in hopes that they can be fixed. Until then i'm back to 3dsmax 2014, again.  

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @revel68,

When you chamfer there is a "Smooth" box which is checked by default, uncheck it and everything should be fine.  (Tested on my end, working.)  As far as the 2017 docking, yes the UI is in flux.  This may be addressed in the future as the UI gets updated, I suggested the Feature Request to help expedite this.  Also, I voted as promised.  You're right though, there doesn't seem to be a way to force floating menus to vertical and that itself would make another good feature request.  

I am curious about the other issues you encountered, thanks for any extra information.  

Best Regards,

[revel68]

WOW! Thanks! I now need to talk to 2 other guys at work. They brought it up to me in the first place (I didn't even know about the chamfer thing). 

I originally was trying to delete that last post cause I kinda sounded like an a-hole but It wouldn't let me edit/delete it. Glad though because I got the answer and that will help a lot.

It would be good to have that checked by default. What is cool is once you you set it it looks like it says for everything including new objects.  So you set it once and forget. But if you restart Max you have to set it again.

Thanks. 

I made some videos yesterday that I can submit. Usually I give them to Kelcey.  The other bigger one is a rendering issue. I may be able to work with it. Basically the viewport normals get messed up at times with mods on instances (inside groups). The video shows it.

Thanks Alfred!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @revel68,

No problem at all, happy to help.  The internal notes say something like "We might make the default behavior 'off' so people don't think their smoothing groups are gone."  When on, it does reset the smoothing groups because it's essentially making new ones.  If you or your buddies find any problems please let me know and I'll log them with the quickness.  

You didn't sound badly, don't worry.  You sounded like a concerned customer and I think that's totally acceptable.  I don't hold grudges and I was an artist for long enough that I don't have an ego.  I really appreciate your candor and for taking the time to communicate with me.  

If you'd like you can email the vids, or post them.  My email address is [email protected].  If there is an unlogged issue in there I will log it, or if there is a problem that can be solved I'll do whatever I can to help solve it.  Thanks again for your time.

Best Regards,