3ds max 2017 directx shader crash

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

Hey guys,

i'm having an issue:

First the viewport freezes (the menus are fine) then after a short while max crashes. It happens when I'm using a directx shader (nothing fancy) on more than 3-4 objects.

I was working on the same scenes in max 2016 and everything was fine so i dont think this is the shaders issue. The more objects use the shader the quicker the freeze occurs. It also happens on the same objects using StandardFX11.fx shader.

This is a big problem for us as my team has just switched to max 2017 and we need to use custom shaders.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

I'm not sure what to think at this point.  Can you tell me about the 2 psu's that you used?  Power rating?  Can you monitor the heat of your card as you are using it to see if it's heating up before it crashes?  Are you using sound through your video card?  If not, uninstall those drivers or don't install them with the NVIDIA drivers.

I went to the NVIDIA forums looking for this bucket error: Bucket ID: LKD_0x141_Tdr:6_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys.  I found this thread which may help explain the issue, and this thread with the same error but no replies.  Vender overclock issues? This guy has the same problem and it was a problem with his VRAM, but it only appear if it filled those memory blocks. This thread is a different card but same issue.  I think it's interesting that all the threads seem to come to the same conclusions.  (PSU, drivers, possible RMA candidate.)  I wish I knew more about it, but it might be time to post on the NVIDIA forums and see what they can do to help.  Mention the error code you got.  

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

I don't think it's a gpu hardware problem as it happens the same on gtx 460
and gtx 1060.

Both PSU that I'm using are above required levels so probably not the case.
Both are 80 plus corsair units. One is 450W and the other 500W. I even
underclocked the 1060 to make it easier on the system. That doesn't matter
anyway as I ran 3ds max in a very small window and the clocks were at
near-idle states 200-300 mhz on core and vram chips. And max still crashed.
So no vendor overclocking issues. Temps didn't rise at all either. The
system was at its low - not stress when the crash happened.

Since its very unlikely that two different GPUs had the same issue I'd rule
this hardware out. BUT! Max didn't crash on the integrated GPU so the GPU
vein shows promise. So it's either the mobo that's handling dedicated GPUs
badly and there lies the problem and possible mobo rma,

or

I've tested both 460 and 1060 on the latest nvidia drivers that is 37x. So
if it's a driver issue it would crash the same on both.

So this is what I think:

If it's a faulty hardware it's the mobo. Both PSUs are powerful enough to
handle my "healthy" system. Both GPUs crash the same regardless of used
PCIE slot. It's not ram since running on integrated GPU is stable. Also
both ram sticks were tested separately with the same crash happening. So in
gpu department the only thing that is the same during crashes are the
drivers.

Software case:

3ds max - it seems that it crashes only a single max instance so it's not a
global, but rather application instance failure that causes the driver to
reset. But no result other than max crashing is present - not even a second
max instance running is affected. My knowledge of max is limited so I don't
know if hardware issue would crash all directx apps.

Maybe it's a faulty driver for the 10x0 family. I'll download an old driver
for 460 and see if this helps.

Thanks for the links, but like You've said - there's no clear solution.

Cheers!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

 I think this analysis makes sense to me. But it may be that the m/b just needs a firmware/bios update (if you didn't do it yet.) I think everything you wrote here makes logical sense. Hopefully this issue does get resolved for you. Disabling sound on the video card by uninstalling the sound drivers and any other drivers not needed for your graphics card may help. I've heard of situations where uninstalling the video card sound drivers got more FPS for people in games, maybe it'll have an effect here. If you think the m/b is at the center of this (and I think your logic is sound) then maybe it's that. This is even more possible if you are using onboard sound instead of the NVIDIA sound via HDMI or whatever. I wonder how many sound devices are listed in your device manager.

There's also the possibility that this can be resolved in BIOS as well. I'm not sure how, but it's a possibility. Thanks for keeping me updated, I realize there isn't much I can do now but I like learning about this issue in case it comes up again for another user. Have a great weekend!

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

good news 🙂

i've installed gtx 460 again and using DDU rolled back the driver to the oldest one available which is 358.91 AND MAX STAYS STABLE!!! 🙂 it didnt crash with few million triangles and hundreds of objects.

Now it's a matter of finding the newest stable drivers. My friend has reported he doesnt have crashes on GTX 770 and 368.81 though i'm pretty sure i've tested them on 1060 and they crashed. Maybe it's different for older/newer cards?

There are also brand new drivers released yesterday that i havent tested. If they still crash i'm gonna send this issue to NVIDIA.

cheers!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

That is great news!  You are a trooper, you've really gone above and beyond here and I admire your persistence.  I guess that does bring it down to drivers or PSU for the 1060, and the drivers are the most likely culprit.  I've been reading up on issues with the 1080's and those also have some driver problems for some people, and I'm sure NVIDIA is aware and working on them.  Giving those new drivers a chance would be great, might just solve the problem!  It's not unheard of for super new tech to need a few driver revisions so I feel strongly that NVIDIA will address the issues.  Thanks for keeping me posted! 

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

thanks @Alfred.DeFlaminis

unfortunately the latest drivers didnt help and 3DS max went back to crashing. I've posted the issue on geforce forum but so far no answear:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/973058/geforce-drivers/3ds-max-2017-crash-on-driver-nvlddmk...

I'll keep You posted with the development 🙂

Cheers and thanks again!

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

Thanks for the update.  I hope it works out.  I wonder if there is a way to turn off the overclocking.   Getting the 460 to work under Max was quite a feat as that card isn't even supported, so you're doing something right.  I hope you get some feedback from that thread.  I wish I could be more help with hardware but it's not my area of expertise.  

Best Regards,

[OccultMonk]

I have the same problem: Viewport crashes but the menus keep working and some minutes later Max stops responding (crashes).

System:

Windows 10.

Newest Nvidia driver.

GTX 980ti

3dsmax 2017 SP3 (DX11)

Thanks.

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@OccultMonk

in most likeliness it's a driver issue. Nvidia hasn't responded.

[OccultMonk]

If it's a driver issue, it should be a major problem for many users, since I have got a 980TI and you have problems with a 1080. Could it have something to do with Ornatrix or some specific viewsport settings?

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

For me it happens on a clean max install. I know the thread is long but the
case is well documented here.

TLDR;

The only thing that helped was reverting to the oldest available drivers.
And in my case switching to GTX 460 because 358.xx drivers dont support
1060.

If You try it make sure to use DDU to install the drivers.

Cheers!

[OccultMonk]

How long has this been going on? Any chance it will be solved. If this is a driver problem almost everyone should have problems with 3dsmax 2017. 

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

ever since i've installed max 2017 on my new rig.

i dont know why other people dont have that issue.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello fellas,

A driver issue doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will have this problem.  For example the NVIDIA drivers also have sound drivers for using HDMI and there may be conflicts between those sound drivers and the onboard sound for some motherboards.  This is just an example.

I would try to turn off the viewcube and see if DX9 is more stable for you.  In Jacek's case that's not doable because he's working on DX11 shaders but you may have more luck @OccultMonk with that.  However if your viewport crashes and Max doesn't it may very well be due to dust/heat.  (Keep in mind that heat monitoring applications for your GPU only measure the chip heat, not the memory heat.)

If you want to start a new thread we can go through this process again.  I am pretty curious of disabling the viewcube helps, I leave mine off because I don't need it but that's one thing I never suggested before that might be worth trying.

EDIT:  Just wanted to mention that just because they haven't responded doesn't mean that the drivers are 100% to blame.  It theoretically could be a problem in drivers or a problem with Max Nitrous viewport.  Or even both.  I have no concrete proof of any single thing being to blame so to be objective I'm assuming that the problem may lie in both.   

Best Regards,

[OccultMonk]

It could be 3dsmax 2017, since 3dsmax 2016 does not have problems. Is Autodesk currently investigating this problem?

I do not want to use DX9 because certain shading options do not work and for performance reasons. 

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @OccultMonk,

Your problem does not sound the same as @jacek.jerzy.maj's problem so this thread isn't the place to get into it as even if a solution was found it couldn't be marked as the solution.  (Jacek's thread.)  It would be best to start a new thread and I'd be happy to investigate.  

Jacek, can you try running with the viewcube off for me please?  Some users are reporting that this is helping with stability and there may be something in there that needs fixing with some of the newer graphics cards. 

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

I just wanted to follow up here, any progress on your issue?  Did turning off the viewcube help at all?  

There is going to be another update to 2017 soon which has a lot on it.  I'll check back once it's released if I don't hear from you before then.

Best Regards,

[OccultMonk]

Why do you think my problem is different? The viewport stops responding but all menus work, after some time 3dsmax crashes. It seems the same problem. I will try disabling the view cube since I don't use it. I had mainly stability issues in heavy scenes and with realistic shading.

Does the new service pack for 3ds max contain improvements in respect to stability and driver/viewport crashes?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

It would be best if you started a new thread @OccultMonk.  I am happy to help you but this is not your thread and you are not contributing to the current discussion about Jacek's problem.  I'm happy to help you in a new thread and answer any questions there, please.  

EDIT:  I think my message came across harsh and that wasn't my intention.  Edited for that reason.  

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis hey Alfred, i'm not in my place over the weekend so i'll check the viewcube on monday.

as for the discussion, i actually think we have the same issue. @OccultMonk if You havent already please read the thread to see if anything works for You.

Cheers.