3ds max 2017 directx shader crash

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

Hey guys,

i'm having an issue:

First the viewport freezes (the menus are fine) then after a short while max crashes. It happens when I'm using a directx shader (nothing fancy) on more than 3-4 objects.

I was working on the same scenes in max 2016 and everything was fine so i dont think this is the shaders issue. The more objects use the shader the quicker the freeze occurs. It also happens on the same objects using StandardFX11.fx shader.

This is a big problem for us as my team has just switched to max 2017 and we need to use custom shaders.

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

Hey Alfred, sorry for the delay, i've had a busy week.

My system installation could be the problem here. I've replaced all my PC components from an old rig without reinstalling the system. Then i installed all the necessary drivers and then upgraded to from Windows 7 to Windows 10.

So lots of potential driver issues here. I'll probably have to do a clean Win 10 install over the weekend.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

Fair enough, that may very well be the issue.  I really appreciate the update here, please keep me posted!  If there is anything I can do, please let me know.

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

Hello @Alfred.DeFlaminis

I've installed fresh Win10 and Max17. Problem still ocurs.

I've noticed that max crashes in two different ways.

The first one is a total max crash with event description:

"The program 3dsmax.exe version 19.3.533.0 stopped interacting with Windows and was closed. To see if more information about the problem is available, check the problem history in the Security and Maintenance control panel."

This is the Security and Maintenance description:

Source
Windows

Summary
Hardware error

Date
‎10/‎16/‎2016 11:24 PM

Status
Report sent

Description
A problem with your hardware caused Windows to stop working correctly.

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: LiveKernelEvent
Code: 141
Parameter 1: ffffad8326ee84a0
Parameter 2: fffff8093195f384
Parameter 3: 0
Parameter 4: f8c
OS version: 10_0_14393
Service Pack: 0_0
Product: 256_1
OS Version: 10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033

Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: LKD_0x141_Tdr:6_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys_Pascal_3D

followed by:

Source
3ds Max application

Summary
Stopped responding and was closed

Date
‎10/‎16/‎2016 11:25 PM

Status
Not reported

Description
A problem caused this program to stop interacting with Windows.
Faulting Application Path: C:\Program Files\Autodesk\3ds Max 2017\3dsmax.exe

Problem signature
Problem Event Name: AppHangB1
Application Name: 3dsmax.exe
Application Version: 19.3.533.0
Application Timestamp: 57cf64b2
Hang Signature: 9768
Hang Type: 134217984
OS Version: 10.0.14393.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Hang Signature 1: 9768bd0a032fe179ce19eac4bac972f7
Additional Hang Signature 2: 2041
Additional Hang Signature 3: 2041ce902484a1acea8626791dc741c5
Additional Hang Signature 4: 9768
Additional Hang Signature 5: 9768bd0a032fe179ce19eac4bac972f7
Additional Hang Signature 6: 2041
Additional Hang Signature 7: 2041ce902484a1acea8626791dc741c5

The second way max crashes is first the viewport becomes unresponsive with all other menus functional. Then max crashes with a recovery file save prompt. I'm guessing this crash doesnt give any event log entry.

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

Ok a little breakthrough:

Bucket ID: LKD_0x141_Tdr:6_IMAGE_nvlddmkm.sys_Pascal_3D - this made me thinking that the crash could be related to the gpu/gpu drivers itself. So i've switched to intel integrated graphics and max doesnt crash anymore on DX shaders and bigger scenes.

My dedicated GPU is GTX 1060 - so a very young card. Do You have one of those somewhere to test it out?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

Interesting.  There's nothing inherently incompatible about the 1060 cards but the drivers might not be super stable for them yet.  Your crash log on my end shows graphics driver is crashing, which is a confirmation of sorts of what you are reporting. 

I would try a few things. 

1) Try to disable your Integrated graphics card in Windows or BIOS and try again.  Those two cards may be competing with one another.

2) Try to downgrade your drivers for your 1060 card.  

3) Make sure it's properly seated in your motherboard and that you have a power supply that is supported.  Sounds a bit like a power issue if your integrated card works fine.  

4) Try a different slot for your card perhaps.  

5) Check for BIOS updates or some motherboards have an entry for multiple graphics cards.  (MShybrid or something like that, switch to Dedicated.)

Please keep me posted and best regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

hello @Alfred.DeFlaminis

re1: that was the case in the first place.

re2: i've downloaded the earliest available for that card - didn't do the trick.

re3: Done that. No change.

re4: i'll do in a minute.

re5: it's set to dedicated.

I've played intensive games on this rig and had no problems with GPU crashing - so i doubt it's a GPU-alone problem. Also my question is: if that was a GPU hardware issue - why max 2016 is not affected?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

You are probably right that it may not be a GPU alone issue, but the event viewer thinks you have bad hardware somewhere in the machine.  (Probably a conflict due to drivers or actual hardware problem somewhere.)   2017 uses the GPU a lot more than 2016 and it likely uses .Net features that didn't exist in 2016 so that would explain why you may not have had that issue there.  It's hard for me to say as I cannot repro the issue you are having. For what it's worth, your scene is still loaded and working on my virtual machine, 9 days or so now with no crashes.

Sometimes little things like a network driver conflict can cause things to appear.  I had a CD-ROM drive once that caused some hardware conflicts even though it seemed to have all the right drivers.  Hardware issues can be tricky.  Are there any other machines you can try your file on or card in?  

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

hello @Alfred.DeFlaminis

So i istalled max 2017 on my laptop and it had no problems running the scene. It has a nvidia 940M gpu.

On my PC I've tried swapping to my old GPU but it turned out dead. So no luck here. I'll drop the event files from my friends pc into the folder.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

Thanks for doing that.  Does your friend have the same PC as you, are you guys a team or something with similar hardware?  I can't *officially* suggest you flash your BIOS but your motherboard may have some BIOS updates that deal with newer hardware such as the new graphics cards you are running.  I would check to see if any exist as they may address your current driver issues if those are what is causing the hardware problems.  Maybe I should have asked sooner, but do you have any "!" next to any items on your device manager?  

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

His computer is different. Plus the folder seems to dissappered. Can You check that?

As for the bios, there is an update for my motherboard with this description:

1.Update EZ mode.
2.Add TPM2.0 setup menu.
3.Update NTFS module.
4.Support HDD with Advanced format 4K sector size.
5.Improve DRAM compatibility

i don't know if thats something that would help.

No exclamation marks in my device manager.

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

This keeps getting weirder:

i've created a new scene and assigned a directx shader to a new object. The scene was stable. Then i've duplicated the elements within one mesh multiple times so one object was almost 400K triangles. The scene was stable. Then i've duplicated the object 44 times for the total of 15M triangles in the scene. And Max still doesnt crash!

Once i open the original scene - "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered." and max crashes. And now it didnt even crash like before. The viewports became unresponsive but max functions fine. For more than 10 minutes now.

I've checked previously if this was related to this scene only - it wasn't.

Any more tests i could do?

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

It looks like I removed the folder.  I do that to maintain privacy and confidentiality, I had forgotten that I already removed it.  I went ahead and sent you a new invite to a new folder, thanks for your patience there.  I already got your accept reply so I'll check those here shortly.  

Regarding the new crashes... that is strange.  My first thought is heat (dusting) but I think we already covered that base, so next I would start looking at drivers for that card again.  I'm headed out of my territory here a bit with hardware debugging, I don't have a very good process for doing that.  The BIOS update you'd mentioned might be helpful, but I don't know enough about some of those things listed to say for sure.  In general, firmware updates are good to do, but as you know if any power fluctuates during the flash process you could brick your device.  In an official sense I can suggest someone do a flash for this reason, but at home it's helped me a number of times.

I would also consider looking at your RAM in case one of the RAM sticks is going bad.   You could use Memtest or maybe remove some RAM and test your scene to see if somehow a RAM chip is the culprit.  Beyond that and making sure your power supply is sufficient for the new GPU, you might want to post in the forums for your motherboard and ask how to identify which device is failing.  I'm out of my zone of expertise with hardware.  I'll check those logs here in a minute.

Best Regards,

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

I checked the other logs for your friends machine, and there are two major things that stand out.  The first error is simply Critical Failure: Kernel Power.  This is an easy one... the power supply is likely insufficient or dying. I can't officially suggest anyone buy anything because I'm supposed to be supporting software only, so this is going to be up to you to decide, but you'll see lots of insufficient power errors and messages in those logs.  All the 3ds Max crashes are stemming from ntdll.dll, which generally means Windows itself.  (Lack of power would do it.)

The 2nd error is about BITS: BITS has encountered an error communicating with an Internet Gateway Device. Please check that the device is functioning properly. BITS will not attempt to use this device until the next system reboot. Error code: 0x80072EE2.  I know nothing about this, but this link may help.

All in all this 2nd machine seems to be easier to diagnose than the 1st one.  Please keep in mind I am not officially suggesting you flash anything, buy anything, etc.  Just noting my observations from reading these logs.  Legal mumbo jumbo.  There is nothing really in these logs that suggests a 3ds Max problem for the 2nd machine.  

I believe that we've narrowed both machines down to hardware issues, and that is the point where I have to stop because I am not a hardware specialist or anything like that.  However if you figure out which hardware was the problem in your 1st machine then please post it here and we can mark the post as the solution so that future users can benefit from this knowledge.

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis Thanks for the info!

i did one more test:

I launched ue4 and set it to game mode so the ue4 viewport was running in the background. Then opened the scene and crashed max. In the event viewer i've got the usual "Display driver nvlddmkm stopped responding and has successfully recovered." but in ue4 the game didnt crash. Does that make any sense?

Cheers.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

Truth be told, I'm not really sure.  It' a good question I just lack the programming and W10 background to really understand why that might be.  I hate to leave a question unanswered but that one is a bit outside my wheelhouse.  I don't know that if one app crashes due to a conflict that it would take down all apps.  I did a google search and a moderator at the NVIDIA forums has some info about that particular driver crashing, might be worth a look.  

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

so here's what i did:

changed GPU to GTX 460 - still crashes

changed PCI-e slot - still crashes

booted my system on each of RAM sticks - crashes on each of them separately

changed PSU to a different one (that should still hold up the system) - crashes all the same

reinstalled W10 again keeping no files or settings - still crashes

replugged all the power connectors to make sure everything is in place - no difference

i've read some of the googled "solutions" but by far nothing works.

[Alfred.DeFlaminis]

Hello @jacek.jerzy.maj,

What does your event viewer show about these crashes?  That's a lot of crashes, should be some new data in there.  

Best Regards,

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

would it be different from previous crashes? it always shows that nvlddmkm stopped responding.

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

i've just checked the GPU sensor log during the crash - TDP% stays at 5%, clocks dont change.

[jacek.jerzy.maj]

@Alfred.DeFlaminis

one more update:

Two maxes running side by side. In the first one i'm opening a scene with few directx shaded objects (this scene doesnt crash) and on the second one the scene that crashes. Of course the second one goes bad and the first one stays stable. How come?

Plus whats even weirder is the scene that crashes doesnt even have directx shaders running. I moved it from a different computer and the paths are incorrect so the materials are referencing a missing file.