why LISP

[Anonymous]

<<< Message <[email protected]> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:25:34 -0400.>>>

You don't HAVE to use AutoLISP. If you know C/C++ then I would just learn
the AutoCAD ARX functions. If you know or want to learn VB, Since R14
AutoCAD has VBA in it.

So you have AutoLISP (and Visual LISP in A2K)
ADS/ARX
VBA

Kevin

Lee wrote in message <[email protected]>...
>As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as the
>customerized language?
>
>why not C++ or something else?
>
>ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with LISP?
>I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
>Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
>
>
>
>
>

[Anonymous]

<<< Message <[email protected]> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 1 Oct 1999 17:28:13 -0400.>>>

With all due respect -
It looks like there may be other problems, other than, which programming
language you are wanting to use!

Lee wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as the
> customerized language?
>
> why not C++ or something else?
>
> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with LISP?
> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
>
>
>
>
>

[Anonymous]

<<< Message <[email protected]> was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Sat, 2 Oct 1999 03:37:44 +0800.>>>

As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as the
customerized language?

why not C++ or something else?

ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with LISP?
I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.

[Anonymous]

<<< Message was originally posted to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:03:03 EDT.>>>

Well, AutoCAD is one of the few programs around that _does_ let you write
customization programs in the same language in which the program itself is
written. There is no inherent reason why you _should_ write customization
programs in the same language as the main program ... but you can write
extremely powerful programs in C++ for AutoCAD, and you can do some things
you can't do in LISP or VBA.

LISP is a pretty good choice for AutoCAD customization. It's very good at
processing the kind of data that is used by CAD programs.

AutoLISP is not particularly great at interfacing with other programs or
using object-oriented programming, but it's improving.

LISP is a lot cheaper (once you've bought AutoCAD!) than C++. Most people
find it easier to learn the basics of LISP than C++, starting from knowing
nothing. LISP feedback is typically faster than the C++
write-compile-link-run-crash-repeat cycle. And it's difficult or
impossible to blow away your program, data, or system from LISP. You can
make some _really_ dangerous mistakes in C++!

As for how you learn it, write some short and simple programs. Then get
some programs from these newsgroups or from the web that do almost the
same thing, and see how differently they were written. Figure out why. I
know that those first few steps seem impossible, but if you start you'll
get to the end.

There are several good books on AutoLISP, some of them a little out of
date. "AutoLISP in Plain English" is highly regarded.

Jrf
Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program

In article <[email protected]>, Lee wrote:
> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as the
> customerized language?
>
> why not C++ or something else?
>
> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with LISP?
> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
>

[Anonymous]

My two cents worth:
AutoCAD does not compile C++. You can write C++ to your hearts content but
when you want to compile it, you need a C++ compiler. The cost of such a
compiler is not included with AutoCAD. AutoCAD interprets uncompiled LISP.
And does so almost instantly with today's processor speeds. And it's
included! No need to run out and buy a program to read and compile your
code. It just isn't necessary. That's why LISP is still the favorite
AutoCAD tool. Even if you can't do as much as you can in C++. You can do
almost everything, and for free, that's a real bargain.

--

Bill DeShawn
[email protected]
[email protected]
http://pages.prodigy.net/bdeshawn/bdeshawn.htm
______________________

Jon Fleming wrote in message <[email protected]>...
><<< Message was originally posted
to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:03:03 EDT.>>>
>
>Well, AutoCAD is one of the few programs around that _does_ let you write
>customization programs in the same language in which the program itself is
>written. There is no inherent reason why you _should_ write customization
>programs in the same language as the main program ... but you can write
>extremely powerful programs in C++ for AutoCAD, and you can do some things
>you can't do in LISP or VBA.
>
>LISP is a pretty good choice for AutoCAD customization. It's very good at
>processing the kind of data that is used by CAD programs.
>
>AutoLISP is not particularly great at interfacing with other programs or
>using object-oriented programming, but it's improving.
>
>LISP is a lot cheaper (once you've bought AutoCAD!) than C++. Most people
>find it easier to learn the basics of LISP than C++, starting from knowing
>nothing. LISP feedback is typically faster than the C++
>write-compile-link-run-crash-repeat cycle. And it's difficult or
>impossible to blow away your program, data, or system from LISP. You can
>make some _really_ dangerous mistakes in C++!
>
>As for how you learn it, write some short and simple programs. Then get
>some programs from these newsgroups or from the web that do almost the
>same thing, and see how differently they were written. Figure out why. I
>know that those first few steps seem impossible, but if you start you'll
>get to the end.
>
>There are several good books on AutoLISP, some of them a little out of
>date. "AutoLISP in Plain English" is highly regarded.
>
>Jrf
>Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
>
>In article <[email protected]>, Lee wrote:
>> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as the
>> customerized language?
>>
>> why not C++ or something else?
>>
>> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with LISP?
>> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
>> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
>>

[Anonymous]

You know nothing about the power and style that comes with C++, the price to
gain that is not that much. Frankly speaking, VC++ in technique is far more
worth money than AutoCAD itself. the market is different and that makes
AutoCAD more expensive. If you could pay for AutoCAD, the price of VC++ is
negligible.
If you are really building a professional application that uses AutoCAD as a
CAD space, then you must move to C++. if you are for small tools that help
your drafting you can use AutoLisp, the best is if you know how to combine
both.

WILLIAM J DESHAWN wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My two cents worth:
> AutoCAD does not compile C++. You can write C++ to your hearts content
but
> when you want to compile it, you need a C++ compiler. The cost of such a
> compiler is not included with AutoCAD. AutoCAD interprets uncompiled
LISP.
> And does so almost instantly with today's processor speeds. And it's
> included! No need to run out and buy a program to read and compile your
> code. It just isn't necessary. That's why LISP is still the favorite
> AutoCAD tool. Even if you can't do as much as you can in C++. You can do
> almost everything, and for free, that's a real bargain.
>
> --
>
> Bill DeShawn
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> http://pages.prodigy.net/bdeshawn/bdeshawn.htm
> ______________________
>
>
> Jon Fleming wrote in message <[email protected]>...
> ><<< Message was originally
posted
> to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:03:03 EDT.>>>
> >
> >Well, AutoCAD is one of the few programs around that _does_ let you write
> >customization programs in the same language in which the program itself
is
> >written. There is no inherent reason why you _should_ write
customization
> >programs in the same language as the main program ... but you can write
> >extremely powerful programs in C++ for AutoCAD, and you can do some
things
> >you can't do in LISP or VBA.
> >
> >LISP is a pretty good choice for AutoCAD customization. It's very good
at
> >processing the kind of data that is used by CAD programs.
> >
> >AutoLISP is not particularly great at interfacing with other programs or
> >using object-oriented programming, but it's improving.
> >
> >LISP is a lot cheaper (once you've bought AutoCAD!) than C++. Most
people
> >find it easier to learn the basics of LISP than C++, starting from
knowing
> >nothing. LISP feedback is typically faster than the C++
> >write-compile-link-run-crash-repeat cycle. And it's difficult or
> >impossible to blow away your program, data, or system from LISP. You can
> >make some _really_ dangerous mistakes in C++!
> >
> >As for how you learn it, write some short and simple programs. Then get
> >some programs from these newsgroups or from the web that do almost the
> >same thing, and see how differently they were written. Figure out why.
I
> >know that those first few steps seem impossible, but if you start you'll
> >get to the end.
> >
> >There are several good books on AutoLISP, some of them a little out of
> >date. "AutoLISP in Plain English" is highly regarded.
> >
> >Jrf
> >Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> >
> >In article <[email protected]>, Lee wrote:
> >> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as
the
> >> customerized language?
> >>
> >> why not C++ or something else?
> >>
> >> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with LISP?
> >> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
> >> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
> >>
>
>

[Anonymous]

You have just pointed out the biggest advantages and the biggest problems
with AutoCAD today. Just as you said, if you want simple drafting tools,
LISP is a great bargain. AutoCAD started out as a drafting program, now
Autodesk wants it to be everything for everybody. That is why it has become
the over-coded, bloatware monster it is today. You get what you pay for,
and with AutoCAD today, the average user pays for much more than they will
ever use.

Charlie wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You know nothing about the power and style that comes with C++, the price
to
> gain that is not that much. Frankly speaking, VC++ in technique is far
more
> worth money than AutoCAD itself. the market is different and that makes
> AutoCAD more expensive. If you could pay for AutoCAD, the price of VC++ is
> negligible.
> If you are really building a professional application that uses AutoCAD as
a
> CAD space, then you must move to C++. if you are for small tools that help
> your drafting you can use AutoLisp, the best is if you know how to combine
> both.
>
> WILLIAM J DESHAWN wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > My two cents worth:
> > AutoCAD does not compile C++. You can write C++ to your hearts content
> but
> > when you want to compile it, you need a C++ compiler. The cost of such
a
> > compiler is not included with AutoCAD. AutoCAD interprets uncompiled
> LISP.
> > And does so almost instantly with today's processor speeds. And it's
> > included! No need to run out and buy a program to read and compile your
> > code. It just isn't necessary. That's why LISP is still the favorite
> > AutoCAD tool. Even if you can't do as much as you can in C++. You can
do
> > almost everything, and for free, that's a real bargain.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Bill DeShawn
> > [email protected]
> > [email protected]
> > http://pages.prodigy.net/bdeshawn/bdeshawn.htm
> > ______________________
> >
> >
> > Jon Fleming wrote in message <[email protected]>...
> > ><<< Message was originally
> posted
> > to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:03:03 EDT.>>>
> > >
> > >Well, AutoCAD is one of the few programs around that _does_ let you
write
> > >customization programs in the same language in which the program itself
> is
> > >written. There is no inherent reason why you _should_ write
> customization
> > >programs in the same language as the main program ... but you can write
> > >extremely powerful programs in C++ for AutoCAD, and you can do some
> things
> > >you can't do in LISP or VBA.
> > >
> > >LISP is a pretty good choice for AutoCAD customization. It's very good
> at
> > >processing the kind of data that is used by CAD programs.
> > >
> > >AutoLISP is not particularly great at interfacing with other programs
or
> > >using object-oriented programming, but it's improving.
> > >
> > >LISP is a lot cheaper (once you've bought AutoCAD!) than C++. Most
> people
> > >find it easier to learn the basics of LISP than C++, starting from
> knowing
> > >nothing. LISP feedback is typically faster than the C++
> > >write-compile-link-run-crash-repeat cycle. And it's difficult or
> > >impossible to blow away your program, data, or system from LISP. You
can
> > >make some _really_ dangerous mistakes in C++!
> > >
> > >As for how you learn it, write some short and simple programs. Then
get
> > >some programs from these newsgroups or from the web that do almost the
> > >same thing, and see how differently they were written. Figure out why.
> I
> > >know that those first few steps seem impossible, but if you start
you'll
> > >get to the end.
> > >
> > >There are several good books on AutoLISP, some of them a little out of
> > >date. "AutoLISP in Plain English" is highly regarded.
> > >
> > >Jrf
> > >Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> > >
> > >In article <[email protected]>, Lee wrote:
> > >> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP as
> the
> > >> customerized language?
> > >>
> > >> why not C++ or something else?
> > >>
> > >> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with
LISP?
> > >> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
> > >> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
> > >>
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

This is true with most programs. Most users use about 20% of the code in the
program. With 34 gig HD's making their presence in common machines, bloated
programs are hardly the issue anymore.

LISP is a great way to customize AutoCAD and C++ is the best way to write
"programs" but it seems VBA has been left out here. This programming
environment is also free with CAD.

Mike @ csd

James A. Moore wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You have just pointed out the biggest advantages and the biggest problems
> with AutoCAD today. Just as you said, if you want simple drafting tools,
> LISP is a great bargain. AutoCAD started out as a drafting program, now
> Autodesk wants it to be everything for everybody. That is why it has
become
> the over-coded, bloatware monster it is today. You get what you pay for,
> and with AutoCAD today, the average user pays for much more than they will
> ever use.
>
> Charlie wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You know nothing about the power and style that comes with C++, the
price
> to
> > gain that is not that much. Frankly speaking, VC++ in technique is far
> more
> > worth money than AutoCAD itself. the market is different and that makes
> > AutoCAD more expensive. If you could pay for AutoCAD, the price of VC++
is
> > negligible.
> > If you are really building a professional application that uses AutoCAD
as
> a
> > CAD space, then you must move to C++. if you are for small tools that
help
> > your drafting you can use AutoLisp, the best is if you know how to
combine
> > both.
> >
> > WILLIAM J DESHAWN wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > My two cents worth:
> > > AutoCAD does not compile C++. You can write C++ to your hearts
content
> > but
> > > when you want to compile it, you need a C++ compiler. The cost of
such
> a
> > > compiler is not included with AutoCAD. AutoCAD interprets uncompiled
> > LISP.
> > > And does so almost instantly with today's processor speeds. And it's
> > > included! No need to run out and buy a program to read and compile
your
> > > code. It just isn't necessary. That's why LISP is still the favorite
> > > AutoCAD tool. Even if you can't do as much as you can in C++. You
can
> do
> > > almost everything, and for free, that's a real bargain.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Bill DeShawn
> > > [email protected]
> > > [email protected]
> > > http://pages.prodigy.net/bdeshawn/bdeshawn.htm
> > > ______________________
> > >
> > >
> > > Jon Fleming wrote in message <[email protected]>...
> > > ><<< Message was originally
> > posted
> > > to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:03:03 EDT.>>>
> > > >
> > > >Well, AutoCAD is one of the few programs around that _does_ let you
> write
> > > >customization programs in the same language in which the program
itself
> > is
> > > >written. There is no inherent reason why you _should_ write
> > customization
> > > >programs in the same language as the main program ... but you can
write
> > > >extremely powerful programs in C++ for AutoCAD, and you can do some
> > things
> > > >you can't do in LISP or VBA.
> > > >
> > > >LISP is a pretty good choice for AutoCAD customization. It's very
good
> > at
> > > >processing the kind of data that is used by CAD programs.
> > > >
> > > >AutoLISP is not particularly great at interfacing with other programs
> or
> > > >using object-oriented programming, but it's improving.
> > > >
> > > >LISP is a lot cheaper (once you've bought AutoCAD!) than C++. Most
> > people
> > > >find it easier to learn the basics of LISP than C++, starting from
> > knowing
> > > >nothing. LISP feedback is typically faster than the C++
> > > >write-compile-link-run-crash-repeat cycle. And it's difficult or
> > > >impossible to blow away your program, data, or system from LISP. You
> can
> > > >make some _really_ dangerous mistakes in C++!
> > > >
> > > >As for how you learn it, write some short and simple programs. Then
> get
> > > >some programs from these newsgroups or from the web that do almost
the
> > > >same thing, and see how differently they were written. Figure out
why.
> > I
> > > >know that those first few steps seem impossible, but if you start
> you'll
> > > >get to the end.
> > > >
> > > >There are several good books on AutoLISP, some of them a little out
of
> > > >date. "AutoLISP in Plain English" is highly regarded.
> > > >
> > > >Jrf
> > > >Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> > > >
> > > >In article <[email protected]>, Lee wrote:
> > > >> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP
as
> > the
> > > >> customerized language?
> > > >>
> > > >> why not C++ or something else?
> > > >>
> > > >> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with
> LISP?
> > > >> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
> > > >> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

I for one am sort of afraid to write code anymore, I keep having to go back
and change it due to AutoCAD "upgrades" and am tired of feeling like a rat
in a wheel.

CSD wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is true with most programs. Most users use about 20% of the code in
the
> program. With 34 gig HD's making their presence in common machines,
bloated
> programs are hardly the issue anymore.
>
> LISP is a great way to customize AutoCAD and C++ is the best way to write
> "programs" but it seems VBA has been left out here. This programming
> environment is also free with CAD.
>
> Mike @ csd
>
>
>
> James A. Moore wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You have just pointed out the biggest advantages and the biggest
problems
> > with AutoCAD today. Just as you said, if you want simple drafting
tools,
> > LISP is a great bargain. AutoCAD started out as a drafting program, now
> > Autodesk wants it to be everything for everybody. That is why it has
> become
> > the over-coded, bloatware monster it is today. You get what you pay
for,
> > and with AutoCAD today, the average user pays for much more than they
will
> > ever use.
> >
> > Charlie wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > You know nothing about the power and style that comes with C++, the
> price
> > to
> > > gain that is not that much. Frankly speaking, VC++ in technique is far
> > more
> > > worth money than AutoCAD itself. the market is different and that
makes
> > > AutoCAD more expensive. If you could pay for AutoCAD, the price of
VC++
> is
> > > negligible.
> > > If you are really building a professional application that uses
AutoCAD
> as
> > a
> > > CAD space, then you must move to C++. if you are for small tools that
> help
> > > your drafting you can use AutoLisp, the best is if you know how to
> combine
> > > both.
> > >
> > > WILLIAM J DESHAWN wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > My two cents worth:
> > > > AutoCAD does not compile C++. You can write C++ to your hearts
> content
> > > but
> > > > when you want to compile it, you need a C++ compiler. The cost of
> such
> > a
> > > > compiler is not included with AutoCAD. AutoCAD interprets
uncompiled
> > > LISP.
> > > > And does so almost instantly with today's processor speeds. And it's
> > > > included! No need to run out and buy a program to read and compile
> your
> > > > code. It just isn't necessary. That's why LISP is still the
favorite
> > > > AutoCAD tool. Even if you can't do as much as you can in C++. You
> can
> > do
> > > > almost everything, and for free, that's a real bargain.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Bill DeShawn
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > http://pages.prodigy.net/bdeshawn/bdeshawn.htm
> > > > ______________________
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jon Fleming wrote in message
<[email protected]>...
> > > > ><<< Message was originally
> > > posted
> > > > to 'autodesk.autocad.r14general' on Fri, 01 Oct 1999 19:03:03
EDT.>>>
> > > > >
> > > > >Well, AutoCAD is one of the few programs around that _does_ let you
> > write
> > > > >customization programs in the same language in which the program
> itself
> > > is
> > > > >written. There is no inherent reason why you _should_ write
> > > customization
> > > > >programs in the same language as the main program ... but you can
> write
> > > > >extremely powerful programs in C++ for AutoCAD, and you can do some
> > > things
> > > > >you can't do in LISP or VBA.
> > > > >
> > > > >LISP is a pretty good choice for AutoCAD customization. It's very
> good
> > > at
> > > > >processing the kind of data that is used by CAD programs.
> > > > >
> > > > >AutoLISP is not particularly great at interfacing with other
programs
> > or
> > > > >using object-oriented programming, but it's improving.
> > > > >
> > > > >LISP is a lot cheaper (once you've bought AutoCAD!) than C++. Most
> > > people
> > > > >find it easier to learn the basics of LISP than C++, starting from
> > > knowing
> > > > >nothing. LISP feedback is typically faster than the C++
> > > > >write-compile-link-run-crash-repeat cycle. And it's difficult or
> > > > >impossible to blow away your program, data, or system from LISP.
You
> > can
> > > > >make some _really_ dangerous mistakes in C++!
> > > > >
> > > > >As for how you learn it, write some short and simple programs.
Then
> > get
> > > > >some programs from these newsgroups or from the web that do almost
> the
> > > > >same thing, and see how differently they were written. Figure out
> why.
> > > I
> > > > >know that those first few steps seem impossible, but if you start
> > you'll
> > > > >get to the end.
> > > > >
> > > > >There are several good books on AutoLISP, some of them a little out
> of
> > > > >date. "AutoLISP in Plain English" is highly regarded.
> > > > >
> > > > >Jrf
> > > > >Member of the Autodesk Discussion Forum Moderator Program
> > > > >
> > > > >In article <[email protected]>, Lee wrote:
> > > > >> As I know Autocat is NOT writtten with LISP, why have to use LISP
> as
> > > the
> > > > >> customerized language?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> why not C++ or something else?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ITs already a fact It'd used LIST, then how do I get started with
> > LISP?
> > > > >> I never learnt it, I knew Pascal and C only.
> > > > >> Please not to tell me to read the help, its not really helpping.
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Anonymous]

James A. Moore wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I for one am sort of afraid to write code anymore, I keep having to go
back
> and change it due to AutoCAD "upgrades" and am tired of feeling like a rat
> in a wheel.

Interesting analogy....
--
/*********************************************************/
/* Tony Tanzillo Design Automation Consulting */
/* Programming & Customization for AutoCAD & Compatibles */
/* ----------------------------------------------------- */
/* [email protected] */
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[Anonymous]

This is the most commonly spread misconception, IMHO,
when you think of Lisp as some kind of a "macro"
language.

Lisp is a great bargain for just about anything. You
only need to implement in C++/VB those parts that
can't be done from LISP (mainly, some esoteric interfaces
like modeless dialogs with tree controls, and number
crunching routines), but the whole system is best
to be written and maintained in Lisp.

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:56:52 -0400, "James A. Moore"
wrote:

>You have just pointed out the biggest advantages and the biggest problems
>with AutoCAD today. Just as you said, if you want simple drafting tools,
>LISP is a great bargain.

---
Vlad http://www.netvision.net.il/php/vnestr/
-== Let the Corman LISP be with you. ==-

[Anonymous]

Finally & finally, I found the way to combine Delphi and aCad with activeX.

Thanks Tony! May I have your email or ICQ#?