CUI Editor Enhancements

CUI Editor Enhancements

dcochran
Archived Account
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Message 1 of 251

CUI Editor Enhancements

dcochran
Archived Account
Hello,

We are looking at ways to improve and enhance the CUI Editor in AutoCAD. As a customer, what improvements would you like to see with CUI?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Doug Cochran
Autodesk, Inc.
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6,845 Views
250 Replies
Replies (250)
Message 121 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:04:54 +0000, eloquintet <> wrote:

>i didn't read through the whole post yet but i installed 2007 awhile back hoping they had truly incorporated tool palettes into the cui. well they haven't streamlined them at all from what i can see. what i wanted to see is the linking of xtp files to xpg files so i can just import groups rather than individual palettes then individual groups then associating them one by one. everytime i install autocad (which is often) i spend tons of time doing this retarded process. if i am missing something please tell me. if not please fix this it's veeeeery annoying.

You can certainly import a groups. Simply iDrop a category full of palettes from
the Content Browser.

First, create a your set of palettes. In Content Browser, either create a new
library or edit an existing one. In this library either create a new catalog or
edit an existing one. Populate this category with your palettes (I use drag and
drop).

Once you iDrop this category onto your palettes, it will create a new group with
those palettes inside.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com
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Message 122 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
I think the solution with dealing with CUIs in a corporate setting is to use Bob
Bell's approach.

Which is, I believe, as follows (from memory):

A) You have four major CUIs to deal with:

acad.cui
acetmain.cui (express tools)
company.cui (your company's custom menus, toolbars, etc).
custom.cui (your users' personal CUI)

B) You have two "modes" of Operation:
- CAD Admin, or "God" mode, where you can edit all of the CUIs
- User, or "The Great Unwashed" mode, where you can only edit your own custom
(user) CUI.

C) Create an "admin" profile that has acad.cui as the main CUI, with company,
acetmain, and custom CUIs as partials.

Edit them to suit your CAD Admin requirements.

D) Create a "user" profile, which has the custom.cui as the main CUI, without
any partial CUIs. Set your enterprise CUI to use acad.cui, with acetmain and
company.cui as partial CUIs

E) The user can create Workspaces under custom.cui to their heart's content.
However they cannot edit anything under the Enterprise cui.

In addition, as you note, because there is no reason a user cannot circumvent
this, it's important that all corporate CUIs reside on the server and be made
read-only to non-CAD Admin personnel. That's as easy as creating a single CAD
ADMIN security group on your network's domain, assign yourself (and any other
CAD Admins) as members, and assign this group Full Control on the folder(s).
Assign everyone else Read Only permissions.

Matt
mstachoni@comcast.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com


On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:07:13 +0000, eloquintet <> wrote:

>i had setup an enterprise cui and wanted to set it up so i created 2 profiles. 1 had acad as the main and enterprise as the enterprise (user). the other had enterprise as the main and no enterprise (admin). i was told that the only way to prevent users from creating a profile as i have and opening up the enterprise cui and dragging elements into their main cui was to only grant permissions to the the enterprise folder to certain users. ok so we created permissions to only certain users but i had to move the location to make it easier to assign permissions. now i open autocad and try to change the path it will not allow me into the folder to path it. so do i need to remove the premissions then path it then reassign the permissions. i have no ability to assign permissions so everytime this happens i have to involve IT which i would rather avoid. so i would like a better way of being able to edit the enterprise than creating a profile and switching back and forth. i would also like a
>way of protecting it from being opened other than assigning permissions to the source folder. the problem is that i configure our machines because our IT guys don't have time or knowledge to do it but i don't have time or knowledge and will not likely be given rights to apply permissions on my own. so i would like to have a way to truly make our enterprise read only without involving IT.
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Message 123 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
TOTALLY agree, going "back" to mnu only and previous customize methods would be a step forward!

John Schmidt
|>I agree with you, Jim.
|>
|>It should be obvious by the response here that the CUI is the most
|>controversial thing Autodesk ever implemented. Notice that this is the
|>Customization Group, with the most experienced and capable users, yet the
|>vast majority here all mention what a huge time-sink it is, and totally
|>non-intuitive. I don't *ever* see the CUI being anywhere near as efficient
|>or reliable at the text based menu system.
|>
|>Wouldn't it be something if Autodesk actually swallowed their pride and
|>admitted the CUI was a big mistake, and took us back to a tool we can use,
|>instead of this sinkhole everyone just ends up getting swallowed up by?...
|>
|>John
|>
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
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Message 124 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Matt, mouse buttons do not behave if their definitions are not in the main CUI.
So this locks you into not using a blank custom.cui as the main cui.
My solution is to copy the acad.cui to custom.cui, and not load an acad.cui at all.
The custom.cui serves as both the user editable file and the provider of the acad default stuff.
I hate this more than anyone knows.

Matt Stachoni
|>I think the solution with dealing with CUIs in a corporate setting is to use Bob
|>Bell's approach.
|>
|>Which is, I believe, as follows (from memory):
|>
|>A) You have four major CUIs to deal with:
|>
|>acad.cui
|>acetmain.cui (express tools)
|>company.cui (your company's custom menus, toolbars, etc).
|>custom.cui (your users' personal CUI)
|>
|>B) You have two "modes" of Operation:
|>- CAD Admin, or "God" mode, where you can edit all of the CUIs
|>- User, or "The Great Unwashed" mode, where you can only edit your own custom
|>(user) CUI.
|>
|>C) Create an "admin" profile that has acad.cui as the main CUI, with company,
|>acetmain, and custom CUIs as partials.
|>
|>Edit them to suit your CAD Admin requirements.
|>
|>D) Create a "user" profile, which has the custom.cui as the main CUI, without
|>any partial CUIs. Set your enterprise CUI to use acad.cui, with acetmain and
|>company.cui as partial CUIs
|>
|>E) The user can create Workspaces under custom.cui to their heart's content.
|>However they cannot edit anything under the Enterprise cui.
|>
|>In addition, as you note, because there is no reason a user cannot circumvent
|>this, it's important that all corporate CUIs reside on the server and be made
|>read-only to non-CAD Admin personnel. That's as easy as creating a single CAD
|>ADMIN security group on your network's domain, assign yourself (and any other
|>CAD Admins) as members, and assign this group Full Control on the folder(s).
|>Assign everyone else Read Only permissions.
|>
|>Matt
|>mstachoni@comcast.net
|>mstachoni@bhhtait.com
|>
|>
|>On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:07:13 +0000, eloquintet <> wrote:
|>
|>>i had setup an enterprise cui and wanted to set it up so i created 2 profiles. 1 had acad as the main and enterprise as the enterprise (user). the other had enterprise as the main and no enterprise (admin). i was told that the only way to prevent users from creating a profile as i have and opening up the enterprise cui and dragging elements into their main cui was to only grant permissions to the the enterprise folder to certain users. ok so we created permissions to only certain users but i had to move the location to make it easier to assign permissions. now i open autocad and try to change the path it will not allow me into the folder to path it. so do i need to remove the premissions then path it then reassign the permissions. i have no ability to assign permissions so everytime this happens i have to involve IT which i would rather avoid. so i would like a better way of being able to edit the enterprise than creating a profile and switching back and forth. i would also like a
|>>way of protecting it from being opened other than assigning permissions to the source folder. the problem is that i configure our machines because our IT guys don't have time or knowledge to do it but i don't have time or knowledge and will not likely be given rights to apply permissions on my own. so i would like to have a way to truly make our enterprise read only without involving IT.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
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Message 125 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
James, the mouse buttons work fine in the outlined scenario, in vanilla or
ABS. There is either something odd in the civil stuff, or there is something
I've forgotten to tell you.

BTW Matt, I usually advocate starting a blank cui file from the transfer tab
as the main cui and overwriting Custom.cui, if it was blank, these days.

--
R. Robert Bell


"James Maeding" wrote in message
news:5153086@discussion.autodesk.com...
Matt, mouse buttons do not behave if their definitions are not in the main
CUI.
So this locks you into not using a blank custom.cui as the main cui.
My solution is to copy the acad.cui to custom.cui, and not load an acad.cui
at all.
The custom.cui serves as both the user editable file and the provider of the
acad default stuff.
I hate this more than anyone knows.

Matt Stachoni
|>I think the solution with dealing with CUIs in a corporate setting is to
use Bob
|>Bell's approach.
|>
|>Which is, I believe, as follows (from memory):
|>
|>A) You have four major CUIs to deal with:
|>
|>acad.cui
|>acetmain.cui (express tools)
|>company.cui (your company's custom menus, toolbars, etc).
|>custom.cui (your users' personal CUI)
|>
|>B) You have two "modes" of Operation:
|>- CAD Admin, or "God" mode, where you can edit all of the CUIs
|>- User, or "The Great Unwashed" mode, where you can only edit your own
custom
|>(user) CUI.
|>
|>C) Create an "admin" profile that has acad.cui as the main CUI, with
company,
|>acetmain, and custom CUIs as partials.
|>
|>Edit them to suit your CAD Admin requirements.
|>
|>D) Create a "user" profile, which has the custom.cui as the main CUI,
without
|>any partial CUIs. Set your enterprise CUI to use acad.cui, with acetmain
and
|>company.cui as partial CUIs
|>
|>E) The user can create Workspaces under custom.cui to their heart's
content.
|>However they cannot edit anything under the Enterprise cui.
|>
|>In addition, as you note, because there is no reason a user cannot
circumvent
|>this, it's important that all corporate CUIs reside on the server and be
made
|>read-only to non-CAD Admin personnel. That's as easy as creating a single
CAD
|>ADMIN security group on your network's domain, assign yourself (and any
other
|>CAD Admins) as members, and assign this group Full Control on the
folder(s).
|>Assign everyone else Read Only permissions.
|>
|>Matt
|>mstachoni@comcast.net
|>mstachoni@bhhtait.com
|>
|>
|>On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:07:13 +0000, eloquintet <> wrote:
|>
|>>i had setup an enterprise cui and wanted to set it up so i created 2
profiles. 1 had acad as the main and enterprise as the enterprise (user).
the other had enterprise as the main and no enterprise (admin). i was told
that the only way to prevent users from creating a profile as i have and
opening up the enterprise cui and dragging elements into their main cui was
to only grant permissions to the the enterprise folder to certain users. ok
so we created permissions to only certain users but i had to move the
location to make it easier to assign permissions. now i open autocad and try
to change the path it will not allow me into the folder to path it. so do i
need to remove the premissions then path it then reassign the permissions. i
have no ability to assign permissions so everytime this happens i have to
involve IT which i would rather avoid. so i would like a better way of being
able to edit the enterprise than creating a profile and switching back and
forth. i would also like a
|>>way of protecting it from being opened other than assigning permissions
to the source folder. the problem is that i configure our machines because
our IT guys don't have time or knowledge to do it but i don't have time or
knowledge and will not likely be given rights to apply permissions on my
own. so i would like to have a way to truly make our enterprise read only
without involving IT.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
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Message 126 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Then why was the menu prompt for the MENULOAD command removed? And why was the highly standard and extremely useful View Toolbars dialog removed?
The MENULOAD command is THE way to toggle partial MNU files, and you've taken one giant step towards removing it completely.
Bring back those two, and make it so a CUI menu doesn't corrupt the MNR/S for previous versions.

--J
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Message 127 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Just change the file to read-only.
It's not fool-proof, as anybody can change it to read-write, but it's a quick and easy way of deterring users from editing the CUI.
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Message 128 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
James Maeding wrote:
> TOTALLY agree, going "back" to mnu only and previous customize methods would be a step forward!
>
> John Schmidt
> |>I agree with you, Jim.
> |>
> |>It should be obvious by the response here that the CUI is the most
> |>controversial thing Autodesk ever implemented. Notice that this is the
> |>Customization Group, with the most experienced and capable users, yet the
> |>vast majority here all mention what a huge time-sink it is, and totally
> |>non-intuitive. I don't *ever* see the CUI being anywhere near as efficient
> |>or reliable at the text based menu system.
> |>
> |>Wouldn't it be something if Autodesk actually swallowed their pride and
> |>admitted the CUI was a big mistake, and took us back to a tool we can use,
> |>instead of this sinkhole everyone just ends up getting swallowed up by?...

While that would be progress compared to the current state of the
system, there are a few nice ideas in the CUI system that I'd like to
see also in the future. Too bad the implementation screwed up their
usability.
- Main/Enterprise menu split + partials to those
- Workspaces as a sub-profile customization concept
- (nearly) All customization behind one access point
and I think getting rid of the .mnu vs .mns mixups was nice, too.

The XML file format was an unnecessary complication, even though it is
buzzword-compatible with the current fads.
If they wanted a well-documented, easily parsable, yet human-readable
format, Lisp s-expressions would have been far superior (especially if
they had a full-size Common Lisp -style READ -function instead of the
crippled AutoLISP READ.)

--
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Message 129 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
More Cochrans using Autodesk products.



-- Cousin "Johnny"
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Message 130 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
I'm glad to hear that, since that gives me hope. The problems I am seeing happen when LDT initializes, but I have done
everything I could to make it as clean and generic as possible to see if it was my stuff or LDT.
Its like the wheel click brings up the osnap menu one moment, then initialize LDT, and it doesn't work, I get no osnap
menu.
I like your setup better for sure, it just hasn't worked here. I'll hold my comments if its working everywhere else...
thx

R. Robert Bell
|>James, the mouse buttons work fine in the outlined scenario, in vanilla or
|>ABS. There is either something odd in the civil stuff, or there is something
|>I've forgotten to tell you.
|>
|>BTW Matt, I usually advocate starting a blank cui file from the transfer tab
|>as the main cui and overwriting Custom.cui, if it was blank, these days.
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
0 Likes
Message 131 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
not everything u can do in the cui, can be done via mnu/mns
for example, osnap overrides, unless i am missing something,


"Bud Schroeder [Autodesk Inc.]" wrote in message
news:5148846@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi Matt,

Thanks for the feedback. Some of these things where implamented in 2007
but you still have some great suggestions. I posted some of the updates we
did in 2007 below next to your comments.

Thanks again for the feedback this is very helpful.

Bud Schroeder
AutoCAD Test Development
Autodesk Inc.


wrote in message news:5148446@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the opportunity, Doug.

(I use Autocad 2006, so disregard any of these suggestions that have already
been added to 2007.)

A.
I think the drag'n'drop from the 'Command List' to the 'Customisations in
all CUI files' section needs to be fixed. It automatically scrolls at
(fairly) high speed as soon as you enter the scroll area. The only way
around it is to do an anti-clockwise semi-circle maneuver with the mouse.
BUD: This should be better in 2007. We have made some changes here.


B.
I don't know if this is already possible, but how about relative paths for
bitmap locations?
BUD: For 2007 we have a default ICON path and you can change it to the path
that you want to use.

C.
Workspace import and export (or drag'n'drop)?
BUD: You can do that today in the Transfer TAB. Just open the menu that
has your Workspace on the left side and the menu that you want to transfer
to on the right. Grab the Workspace and drag it.

D.
Copy'n'Paste of whole or partial toolbars, pull-downs etc. (mentioned by
other replies)
BUD: Something we are looking at for future versions.

E.
Vaguely related: More than one enterprise menu. An enterprise path? Used
only for items called from the enterprise cui.
BUD: You can kind of do this now, but It depends on why you want multiple
Enterprise CUI files. For example you can have an Enterprise CUI file with
partial CUI files loaded in that same file. They are all treated as an
Enterprise CUI file. For different CUI files, you could use a profile and
change the Main and CUI paths to different CUI files.

F.
How about utilising right-clicks a little more?
BUD: What would you like to see used more in the Right Click?

G.
Multiple copy of strings of text, like Microsoft Office.

H.
A filter for the 'Command List'. As in the layer dialog.
BUD: You can filter and search the command list today? Are you looking for
more granularity in how you filter?

I.
Search and replace of text. (Checkboxes of which fields to search.)

J.
How about a more simple way of ordering the pull-down menus?
BUD: Can you tell us more about what you would consider more simple? Right
now you just click on the Workspace in CUI and expand the Menu. Then just
drag them where you want them to show up. Are you looking for a different
way? Thanks.

K.
Once again, vaguely related: How about fixing the toolbar placement & lock
facility? I still have toolbars that don't stay where I want them to.
BUD: Sorry that one is not in the CUI except for the default location of the
toolbars. And that actually is the same as it was in the old MNU format.
But I will pass it on to the team that implamented the locking. Can you
give me some examples of the issues your seeing so that I can share that
with them?

L.
How about being a bit more HELPful? Context sensitive help would be great,
especially with stuff like the Element ID.
BUD: We did a lot of work on Help in 2007 including adding videos to show
how the dialog flows. I would be curious to see what you think of the help
in 2007 and if it's more helpful.

M.
How about having the images in the 'Button Image' area in groupings of where
they come from. dll, bmp file, etc
How about which menu (or partial) they are related to?
BUD: Would it be just the groupings or the entire image/icons section?
Most of this comes from the old MNU system. Also if you add a custom icon
you do see the path in the propertie. But it sounds like you want to see
more here.

As for going back to mns files?
Yes mns files were easier to edit, but the CUI system is OK.
Autodesk have been moving towards complete Windows integration for years,
obvious to anybody who wanted to see the patterns.
The mns system was (obviously) incapable of being modified to suit the
advanced requirements.
I just hope Autodesk don't add those (Microsoft Office style) silly
shrinking pull-down menus!! ;-)))

Anyway, cheers!

Matt
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Message 132 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
really? From a .cui file

Warning! Do not edit the contents of this file.
If you attempt to edit this file using an XML editor, you could lose
customization and migration functionality.
If you need to change information in the customization file, use the
Customize User Interface dialog box in the product.
To access the Customize User Interface dialog box, click the Tools menu >
Customize > Interface, or enter CUI on the command line.

And why is the XML file 7 times larger then the .mnu? Makes no sense to me

--
Dave

wrote in message news:5151363@discussion.autodesk.com...
the funny part, is that your response indicates several things.

first of all, XML is hardly a "flavor of the day". secondly, one of the
incredible benefits of the utilization of XML is the ability to edit it as
raw text, in fact very much like parsing an ASCII file.
If you had ever worked with XML, you would know two very simple things:
(1), it's a dream to work with, and it's unsettling why more companies don't
must move everything to XML, for instance, just move the MNU/CTB/PGP formats
directly into XML; (2), the cumbersome, quasi-1.1 utilization that companies
such as Intuit and Autodesk have gone into can hardly even be called XML, as
it does not follow two of the basic tenants: all information stored as
plain text attributes, and able to be edited by a text editor.
I'd agree that where they got the idea to use XML is hardly a worthy
discussion topic. But the XML schema that they settled on truly is. The
vast recurring theme of posts in here is the desire to be able to edit a
configuration file manually in a text editor. Converting the menu system to
XML should allow that. But Autodesk has chosen to use XML as merely a
database format. Since they are not moving CTB and other formats to XML, it
can hardly be taken as an indication of supporting the standard.
And lastly, since they clearly did outsource the creation of the CUI, I feel
that is also a perfect point of contention regarding its design.

--J
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Message 133 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
I agree.......10 seconds wow!.....Lets see, if I customize the Interface....lets say 10 times a month.....thats a total of 100 seconds.....Thats it! I am also dropping my subscription!
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Message 134 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
Actually write permissions should exist for the CAD manager only on the reference folders with a regular easy to access back-up.
Designing a profile using a copy of that folder elsewhere is my best possible solution. I can develop on the fly and have the standards team verify the new item before deploying it.
Profiles make this easy.
I also utilize the Desktop shortcuts each pointing to a different profile. Right click on your AutoCAD desktop shortcut and paste a reference to the profile location on the network you wish to start from:
"C:\Program Files\AutoCAD 2006\acad.exe" /p "P:\CAD\CAD-PROFILES\MyCustomProfile.arg"
Personal drive spaces on the network is the method I have in place. No matter what pc they log on to their personal folder comes up and reads their profile settings.
I'm able to edit and test issues on a different folder. If its worth adopting I place it in the main users folder.
Right clicking on the files themselves and selecting properties I also set those files to read only as an added precaution. 2 windows of notepad open and I forget which drive is which on the notepad lol. I have to allow myself to write to that file then by going through the properties.
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Message 135 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
"..............it's likely that they'll only ever see the first instance of the CUI dialog in any given session."
Come on......That's only if they customize their interface EVERYTIME they get into AutoCAD.....Ridiculous!. I am amazed at how people seem to spend most of their time looking for something to complain about....In fact, thats exactly what I am doing now!
0 Likes
Message 136 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
why do I keep getting messages that this thread has new update messages?

-- JDC
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Message 137 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
"..........We've developed this system since r10 and now all of a sudden I'm being asked to "toss it" and somehow make this new system act and feel like our old one?..."
No, just load the .mnu as Partial CUI Files.....Basically the same as before.
0 Likes
Message 138 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
or "Basically different than before", depending on your point of view.



wrote in message news:5154038@discussion.autodesk.com...

No, just load the .mnu as Partial CUI Files.....Basically the same as
before.
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Message 139 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
>>>jbryant4 wrote:
No, just load the .mnu as Partial CUI Files.....Basically the same as before. <<<

Okay, maybe I just don't understand it yet and we are heavily customized here.

The way we do it now, is that everyone works off their own .MNS and profile. The reason being is that we had so much trouble when shared machines between nightshift and dayshift. Seemed like the changes that were made on one machine affected the .MNS/interface of the other user on that same machine.

What I did to solve the problem, was, to check each username at startup and make sure that the profile that belonged to them was set current and saved at the begining of the session. That way, any changes that were made to their interface (toolbars) were made to their own custom .mns. And if anyone crashed out during a session, the profile could be restored and it would be current because the profile had been saved regularly.

Right now we all read off the same startup files and share the network files that run our custom apps.
Can I still do something like we do now?

So what am I looking at for 2007.


We completely ignored 2006 because of all the problems that we see posted here about going to CUI, but we really don't care to get too far behind on releases either.

TIA

Bill
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Message 140 of 251

Anonymous
Not applicable
true, but the compromise to get the new features was unacceptable (oh wait, we paid subscription...guess we accepted
them)

mark
|>not everything u can do in the cui, can be done via mnu/mns
|>for example, osnap overrides, unless i am missing something,
|>
|>
James Maeding
Civil Engineer and Programmer
jmaeding - athunsaker - com
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